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TFI upgrade attempt

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by nwedgar, Sep 9, 2009.

  1. Sep 23, 2009
    TeamRush

    TeamRush Member

    So.West Indiana
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    It depends on what MODULE you are going to use!

    Ford DuraSpark, GM HEI style, CDI of some sort (like MSD)...

    The picture showed on the first page is a Ford DuraSpark module with the Jeep/Motorcraft distributor and MSD E-core coil...

    The module probably won't live very long with that E-core coil, they don't get along very well, especially with the aftermarket (Import) DuraSpark replacements.

    If you use the DuraSpark module, you MUST use a resistor to the ignition coil to keep the module alive!

    This is an accurate diagram for the Jeep version of the Motorcraft ignition...

    [​IMG]

    -------------------------------------------

    Now, if you decide to use an E-core coil, instead of factory type canister coil,
    You will need to do something about more resistance,
    or use a module that can handle the extra current return from the ignition coil.

    If you are short on money, and want to replace your DuraSpark module with a cheaper GM HEI style module,
    It WILL live in the system without a resistor since it's designed to work with a full 12 volt reference.

    There are TWO ways to do this,
    One is to leave the DuraSpark wiring in place, and simply replace the module it's self with a GM HEI style module...
    And that's referred to as a 'STEALTH HEI'...
    Or more precisely, "John Strenk's Stealth HEI conversion".

    You simply wire up a GM HEI style module to fit in place of the Ford DuraSpark module.
    THIS IS THE EASIEST WAY TO DO THINGS FOR '78 To '86 Jeep OWNERS.
    And the factory tach will still work this way.

    LINK: http://www.junkyardgenius.com/ignition/jeep/HEI01.html

    [​IMG]

    --------------------------------------------

    The second way is to use the HEI module and build a harness between components from scratch that eliminates the resistor wire, ect.
    All you need from the old harness is the plug to the distributor,
    And the wire that feeds the positive side of the old ignition system,
    Doesn't matter if it's Prestolite, Motorcraft, or what ever.

    Since Prestolite ('74-'77 I-6 & V-8) didn't use an ignition resistor, the wire,
    And feeds a full 12 volts to the existing ignition coil and module,
    It's a VERY good candidate for this version of the 'TeamRush' upgrade...

    Stock Prestolite Ignition Wiring...

    [​IMG]

    'TeamRush' Replacment For Prestolite...
    [​IMG]

    This Will keep those factory tachs working, and you won't have 'PRESTOLITE BLUES' anymore!

    ----------------------------------------------------

    The THIRD option is to use the Jeep/Motorcraft distributor, so you can use the upgraded cap, rotor, plugwires, ect.

    (distributor from '78 or '79 Jeep CJ-7 with 304 V-8 engine works GREAT when you get a remand from the parts store!)

    Then use a CDI ignition module.
    CDI stands for Capacitive Discharge Ignition, and it's 500% to 1,000% more USABLE SPARK ENERGY for your engines right out of the box!

    This ignition module will throw about 400 to 600 volts at the ignition coil, (factory does well to get 12 volts to the coil),
    And you will get 5 or 6 sparks per firing cycle, (factory does well to get ONE spark per firing cycle, an instant 500% increase in spark energy at the plug!).

    There are adapters available to convert Motorcraft distributor plugs to CDI wiring plugs,
    And all you really need from the old system is a power source from the key switch to activate the system.

    The diagram shows the adapters, part numbers, and some ideas about how to fix things that might crop up with this system...

    [​IMG]

    Now, with this system, your factory 'Series' tachs won't work without an adapter and some wiring...

    [​IMG]

    For those of you with AFTERMARKET TACHS, most aftermarket tachs will work with ANY of these systems just like they do now!

    -----------------------------------------

    Does this help clear things up now that you know there are THREE different variations of the upgrade being kicked around?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  2. Sep 23, 2009
    nwedgar

    nwedgar Now with TBI!

    Newnan, Georgia
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,785
    Clear. I've chosen the 3rd. option with the e-core coil and MSD 6 module. Seems to be very reliable, stable, and all around easy upgrade. I'll probably have to ask more questions when it comes to which alternator to use. Right now I have an Delco alternator.
     
  3. Sep 24, 2009
    TeamRush

    TeamRush Member

    So.West Indiana
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    If you already have a Delco 10 SI alternator, then there is no reason to change unless you intend to weld off it...

    If you are doing brackets from scratch, or have the front clip off so you can get at the brackets,
    Use a Delco CS 140 or 141 alternator.

    With a little modifiction, you can WELD off those 140/141 alteantors pretty easy, and they will live!

    If you intend on trail repairs fairly regularly (I'm the 'Mr.Fixit' on the trails around here... Not casue I want to be...)
    I used a Leece Neville big truck alternator and I can produce current in 110/220 AC for corded tools or lights,
    I can produce a range of DC options to power up on board welders,
    (MIG/TIG/STICK) and I can power up my on board plasma cutter with it.

    It also charges batteries pretty well! R)

    For the 'Average Joe', I'd just stick with the Delco Remy 10 or 12 SI alternator that came in every Jeep from '78 to '90 or '91.

    The 12 SI off a full size vehicle is a little more stout than the 10 SI that came on CJ's, but either will power up your vehicle with dual batteries, so there really isn't any need to go exotic unless you have fuel injection or something else that requires absloute voltage cut off points out of the alternator.
     
  4. Sep 24, 2009
    nwedgar

    nwedgar Now with TBI!

    Newnan, Georgia
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,785
    on-vehicle welding is a little beyond what I'm looking for. I think I have the Delco 10...but I'm not sure. Either way, I don't see a reason to change from Delco for my alternator.

    I can almost see your trail rig now...little string lights hung up all around...welding happily while watching the game on an LCD screen/satellite hookup. :)
     
  5. Sep 25, 2009
    nwedgar

    nwedgar Now with TBI!

    Newnan, Georgia
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,785
    Hey TeamRush...did you delete all your postings?

    I was using this thread as a guide when all of a sudden your postings are gone?
     
  6. Sep 25, 2009
    aallison

    aallison 74 cj6, 76 cj5. Has anyone seen my screwdriver?

    Green Cove...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,929
    x2 on the TeamRush postings being gone. I was using them, making notes, printing them, etc. I didn't do any saves because it was fresh thread.
     
  7. Sep 25, 2009
    TeamRush

    TeamRush Member

    So.West Indiana
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    I don't know what happened, but I can see the stuff now...
    Probably 'PO'ed off one of the moderators and he yanked the stuff for a while...

    You never know what people are going to do, that's why we are trying to build a TECH ONLY website, with write ups on this stuff for ourselves...

    EDIT.
    Yup, got 'Moderated'... MISSING POSTS AGAIN!
    Looks like I'm only good enough to give technical information, but not good enough to post any ideas or opinions...
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  8. Sep 25, 2009
    TeamRush

    TeamRush Member

    So.West Indiana
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    Nope, not me, I'm into SIMPLE,
    When you raise my hood, there won't be ANYTHING you don't identify immediately.

    That's why I add extra rectifier to the back of a regulator alternator,
    Instead of going with something exotic and hard to find parts for, and when you do, it's $89,000!

    That was the idea behind 'Junk Yard Genius',
    Stuff you can find in the Junk Yard, and for a few bucks or some of your time, you could make something valuable for yourself.

    The only thing that catches eyes on my jeep is the heavy wire connection on the front brush guard...
    That's where I plug in Jumper cables, Winches, ect.
    Other wise, except for a couple or three switches on the dash, it looks bone stock.
     
  9. Sep 28, 2009
    jetaknight

    jetaknight New Member

    Dallas, TX
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    I recently ordered a HEI system for my 77 CJ-5 (304) from 4wd.com. Needless to say the system is absolutely crap. After reading the forums from this site, amongst others, I've decided to go the TFI route. I will be using the stock AMC distributor, with a Ford Cap, MSD 6200 module, and a MSD TFI coil. At this point, I'm hoping I have all my bases covered. If you guys can think of anything else I need, please let me know. Thank You
     
  10. Sep 28, 2009
    LBOGRS

    LBOGRS Member

    Las Vegas, NV
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    84
    By stock AMC distributor, do you mean the Motorcraft Distributor?
     
  11. Sep 28, 2009
    jetaknight

    jetaknight New Member

    Dallas, TX
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    My jeep originally came with a cap and points system. I just picked up a distributor from Oreilly's today for a 79 CJ-5 (electronic ignition)
     
  12. Sep 29, 2009
    LBOGRS

    LBOGRS Member

    Las Vegas, NV
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    84
    Okay, that new one you just picked up should be a Motorcraft. Follow the instructions and diagrams within this post and you should be good to go.
     
  13. Sep 29, 2009
    jetaknight

    jetaknight New Member

    Dallas, TX
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    Now I'm going to attempt to return the HEI distributor to www.4wd.com, wish me luck! It's only fair that they accept it back considering the damage it did to my camshaft gear. . .
     
  14. Sep 29, 2009
    jetaknight

    jetaknight New Member

    Dallas, TX
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    Go www.4wd.com, great customer service! Not only are they going to return the HEI Ignition, but they are also going to pay for shipping and handling!
     
  15. May 23, 2011
    chiefcarp

    chiefcarp chiefcarp

    North Oregon Coast
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    I hope no one is annoyed by me bring this back up and I hope LBOGRS is still on the board. I’m over here from the JCCA board looking for electronic ignition upgrades and found this thread, and a real good right up but have a few questions.
    The red and blue wires that go to and from the ignition switch which one goes were?
    And the Ballast resister you are right for every one person that says you don’t need one another one says you do. I have a 73 Commando with I believe a resister wire can I use that instead of a Ballast resister??
    I realize this post is about 2 ½ years old but I hope one of the people that originally posted is still around and can answer.

    Thanks in advance
    Tim C
    North Oregon Coast
    73 Commando
     
  16. May 23, 2011
    Rick

    Rick Member

    Hanson,Ma.
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    287
    With my TFI upgrade I used the GM 4 pin module, which as I understand it, does not need the ballast resistor. I've been running it for over a year without any problems.
    On my set-up, the red goes to terminal B of the GM module as well as to the + on the coil and the I terminal on the start relay. The purple from the switch goes to the S terminal of the start relay.
    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
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