stock brake shoe setup?

I just want to get it right!!

On the 1953 cj3b stock brake setup does the short Pad shoe go to the back!

I was always told on drum brakes the short Pad shoe went to the front BUT!
I also, was told that on the early 9 inch type brakes (cj3b) that the short Pad
shoe went to the back!

:? Can any one clear this up for me???:?
Thanks

 

Well!!!
I agin have been told the opposite! The place that i got the brake pads from said the short pad goes to front! Then (i posted this on cj3b site) and one guy told me that the short brake pad goes to the back and long goes to front!

Well i dont know what is right?

I have stock 9 inch single spring brakes on a 1953 cj3b!
Can anybody clear this up for me or give me a reference to what is the right way to set them up!!
I really would like to get this done but also want it right!:?

Thanks!!

 

Short to back.

If you think about it, the short gets dragged "up" and "into" the cylinder, pushing the long shoe even harder into the drum while the opposite side of the long shoe gets pushed against the pin at the bottom.

It's long shoe back on nearly everything else because the cylinder is at the bottom and the pin on the top. Basically, the Jeeps are upside-down from most other cars.....

Clear as mud?

 

:?
wheel cylinders on the bottom ?
Jeeps are up-side down vs other cars ?
most vehicles have short to the front
and all cylinders are on top (don't know about British cars)

 

x2, also for pickups and wagons.

 

It was late. I plead exhaustion.....

I just remember that the pin being on bottom had something to do with it.

Now that I'm awake, on most vehicles, the cylinder is at the top, but the auto adjuster is at the bottom, right?

SHeesh, I gotta quit reading the forums so late at night.....

 

Think of it this way....As the rear wheel rotates in a forward direction the brakes shoes themselves rotate in the forward direction when the brakes are applied (that is, they "rotate" until something causes them to stop "rotating"). The larger shoe is placed "towards the front" of the vehicle, as it provides the most stopping surface area to the brake drum (ie. "leading vs following" brake shoe).

And that, ladies and gentlemen, cost me $4K to learn (2 year community college tuition back in the day..)

 

Thank you all for the great info!! i now R smarter

Also i just went to the cj3b site and got this info if any one is interested!!

"It is very simple once it is explained correctly. Your primary brake
shoe(forward motion stopping) will be the larger of the two shoes in a
two-shoe drum brake. The shoes in the type brake used in the Willys are
pinned at the bottom so as to allow hinging and no rotation. They are
actuated at the top by a hydraulic cylinder which pivots the shoe into
the rotating drum. The forward rotation of the drum will have a
tendency to pull(if properly adjusted, and this is very important) the
shoe into the drum thereby multiplying the force being applied.
However, this force stops at the pivot pin at the bottom of the shoe,
making the forward shoe the primary shoe, which needs to be the longest
for proper distubution of braking forces as well as wear. Forward
motion of the vehicle generally uses the brakes much more often than
rearward motion of the vehicle. The front shoe then, needs to stand up
to more use. It is the long one. Keep in mind that the
return/retaining springs are of different tensions and need to be good
and installed in the correct order. They are color coded.

These brakes are very simple and were cheap to produce and mostly
reflect the technology of the times. They work good if kept installed
correctly, adjusted properly, and well maintained. They were, however,
designed to slow/stop a light vehicle from relative slow speeds as
determined by today's standards. In the case of the MB and GPW and
early CJ's, you are looking at a 3000 lb loaded vehicle moving at no
more than probably 45 mph in probably soft or at least unpaved terrain.
The servo type brakes(following shoe is primary shoe) and or larger
diameter drums and shoes would be a good upgrade for use in today's
traffic and speed, if you have the gears to get above 45 mph. Somewhere
in the late fifties or early sixties, Kaiser did just that. They were
building heavier jeeps going faster.

Ron, IA "


Agin thank you all now i can do my brakes RIGHT!!!

 

front shoe = primary (larger) - Great post.

 

I thought the 11" brakes went in the back and the 9" went in the trash?R)

Sorry, I'll leave now.

 

OK, to stir this up a little more...I'm putting 11" brakes from a postal Jeep on, does the same rule apply? Larger shoe to the front?

 

nope
to the rear

 

Ohhhh, you're making my brain hurt! Why the difference?

 

cuz R)




we've always done it that way...
that's the way it is

 

I had my brakes installed by a kid at AutoZone, and he put the small shoes in front. I spoke with Rob at Willys works. He told me the large shoe goes in front, because they have most of the stopping power. So after watching the kids from AutoZone, install them incorrectly. I learned how to do it and changed them to the correct position. Assuming that the early CJ fives principal and physics are the same. I am redoing the brakes on 1955 completely. so far I have installed a new master cylinder and everything else will be new. when I purchased the 1963 It was in the middle of a break job. I must assume from what I have read is that a large shoes go in fount. Regardless of what old model Jeep you have.
Doug/Tucson

 

you assume incorrectly

 

Yer killin' me!

 

If you have duoservo brakes the large shoe is the secondary shoe and goes in the rear or behind the wheel cylinder. These are the bendix style with the anchor pin at the top and they "float" or move back and forth at the bottom. As the master cylinder is depressed the primary and secondary shoes are pushed towards the drum by the wheel cylinder. As the primary shoe makes contact with the drum the primary shoe forces the bottom of the secondary shoe against the drum and creates kind of a "cam" action forcing the secondary shoe even tighter against the drum giving very good braking. This is called self energizing braking.
The Lockheed style with the anchor point at the bottom of the backing plate does not have this self energizing or "cam" action putting more force on the shoes and drum because the bottom of the shoes are anchored in place. This is why these style of brakes often need the longer lining on the front, especially on old Jeeps with small brakes. Be aware however when working on modern vehicles this does not always apply. Nickmil

 

OK, here's my 11" backing plates off a '76 DJ5 mail Jeep. Front plates are on the right, rears are on the left. Is this the kind you're talking about Nick? The large shoe goes to the rear on these?