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Steering Upgrade

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Bigdaddy13, May 18, 2020.

  1. May 18, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

    So.Cal
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    Ok, so it's come to my attention as I research my exhaust manifold swap (even if I stick with headers for the moment) that my steering system leaves something to be desired.

    I'm thinking that I want to spend a bit of cash upgrading my setup. This is my thought using Jegs/speedway/Summit/Borgeson parts.

    2020-05-18_18-29-05.jpg

    Thoughts?

    I want all new parts. No junkyard diving. I also would like a tilt wheel, but if the steering shaft is in the right spot/has the correct angle (32" hot rod smooth/slick steering shaft from Jegs/Speedway for example) I'm good.

    See post #6 for pics
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  2. May 18, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Maybe the first connector closest to the Steering box has to be a rag-joint?
     
  3. May 18, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Don’t know where you are starting so don’t know how to get you to your destination.
     
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  4. May 18, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Have a saginaw conversion that uses a 3/4” smooth shaft to a u-joint, straight to a 60’s GM column
     

    Attached Files:

  5. May 18, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    I have a rag joint at steering gear box. I understanding is it there to remove vibration . from engine . frame and running gear to steering wheel
    but what do I know . it by design . you wouldn't lose steering if joint happen to wear out . it just gets sloppy . only replaced it once in more that 30 years
     
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  6. May 18, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Here's another look at my current setup. solid 3/4" rod to u-joint, to 3/4" smooth steering column. both look to be drilled/dimpled with a set screw.
    CCPG7364.JPG

    Here's my column that's been ID'd as a 60's GM column, but looks to be just sawed off at the bottom. (might have been DD'd or splined previously?)

    IMG_7553.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  7. May 19, 2020
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Your steering box should not have a smooth shaft, if it does somebody has already screwed your box up. There should be serrated splines on the steering box input. Is your box power or manual? We need a picture of how your mount is made and your box.
     
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  8. May 19, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    The mount is fine, i reinforced it with my winch mount, but i think you’re right about the box itself...
    Box is manual. Looks to me, almost like a Vega box?
    675E7601-D142-4C1C-A3C5-5526658AF264.jpeg
     
  9. May 19, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    And here’s a view of the shaft coming out of the box. I guess there is a chance that this shaft is just pressed over a splined output, but i kind of doubt it. I should check, though.

    A17EA340-2D67-445C-8FCC-1CBB24D01E95.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  10. May 22, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    hmmm...242 views and crickets....lol. Got it.

    Just to clarify - I'm asking for info on my first post about pieces of this upgrade. I'm not a steering expert, so I don't want to waste money on parts I don't need.

    I've actually been finding quite a bit of info on the HAMB hotrod site related to steering and best practices, but those rigs don't generally bounce off rocks, sooo...
     
  11. May 22, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
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    On my steering conversion. I have steering box—spud shaft to go from spines on box to DD shaft—u joint—telescoping shaft—u joint—steering column
     
  12. May 22, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    There is a whole thread dedicated to power steering installs: Saginaw Power Steering (pics) Please Add Yours!
    Some of the older posts have fallen victim to photobucket.... but the later ones should still be active.
    Your steering box started out its like with a splined input shaft. If the PO of your jeep cut it off..... id begin to question the integrity of all of his work.
    If your going to go through all of the work to power steer..... I would rework the mounting situation with welds that look better than what you have posted above.
    I have done two power steering installs that use all off the shelf YJ box, pump and hoses. There are pictures in my build thread.
    There are many ways to skin the power steering cat.....
     
  13. May 22, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Steering box mount is completely re-worked.
    I've read through the Saginaw thread. I'm asking specifically for critiques of my proposed setup.
    But, thanks.
     
  14. May 22, 2020
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

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    How many splines do you have on your steering gear input? Do you want a rag joint or a spud shaft? Its hard for any of us to engineer your particular setup. but I went with a power saginaw box, custom made spud shaft to a telescopic D shaft, to a welded on universal to a speedway column. Every conversion is different.
     
  15. May 22, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Do you remember which telescopic d shaft?
     
  16. May 22, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Which telescoping shaft did you go with?
     
  17. May 22, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Like I said..... there are many ways to skin this cat.
    Here are some example pics of my setup. I started off with a setup similar to what you diagrammed in the first post. It worked great and was the same exact setup that I put in Steve's 71. I was setup with a universal joint at the box, universal joint at the column and a collapsible section in the middle made out of 3/4" DD and 1" hollow DD. (You can purchase this DD material from summit racing.) As I drove the jeep more I began to notice the steering feedback from frame to body flex/misalignment. It did not hurt anything, I just wanted to make it better.
    I have upgraded my system to a 3 universal joint system and I like it much better. Having 3 joints with a support bearing allows the steering to be more isolated from flex. The 3 joint system with a dog leg in it can also be used without a collapsible shaft section. The dogleg creates a shear point for a head on crash.

    The picture below is an overhead shot of my steering setup. Far right, bottom of the column, you can see a 1" DD to 3/4" DD universal joint. My column is 1" DD output, shaft is 3/4" DD.
    The shaft is solid and runs down into a 3/4" DD x 3/4" DD universal that is located under the #1 header tube.
    From there the 3/4" DD shaft runs through the rod end support bearing seen on the far left.
    [​IMG]


    Looking underneath.... Far left you can see the Column to shaft universal joint.
    The shaft runs down to the universal joint located under the #1 exhaust tube.

    [​IMG]


    Moving forward past the engine mount you can see the support bearing rod end.


    [​IMG]

    Here you can see the run from the support bearing rod end (on left side of pic) to the steering box universal joint (right side of pic).

    [​IMG]


    There is no "correct" way to do this job. It all depends on what parts you choose to use. This is just an example of one system that works very well.
    My system does not need a collapsible section because of the multiple angles allowing it to crush and shear. If you want to go the collapsible route you can get the 1" hollow DD and 3/4" solid DD from Summit Racing. There are also many options out there for universal joints. I prefer the American made flaming river and Ididit joints.
     
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  18. May 22, 2020
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    This is exactly the kind of reply i was looking for. Thx for taking the time.

    specifically:
    -preferences on number of u-joints
    -considerations for crash safety and angle maintenance.
    -brand preference

    Muchos gracias!
     
  19. May 22, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    The install can be done with only two U joints and a collapsible section of DD shaft. I feel that the 3 joint setup helps to even out all of the U joint angles, runs smoother and isolates the steering from any frame/body twist while cornering at speed. I will try to get a couple pics taken at similar angles as above of Steve's 2 joint setup next week.
     
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  20. May 22, 2020
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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