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Steering Brake On The Dana 27 (a Locker + 32s Might Break It) Anyone Done This?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by 70cj5134f, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Aug 23, 2018
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
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    Had a vw powered mud buggy way back and had steering brake on rear to turn sharp , but it
    Also worked well when stuck to put power to the wheel not spinning.
    Was thinking bout trying to install one on the front axel( got a posi in rear).
    Anyone done this? Opinions?
    Should be able to do for bout 100$ ?
    Also need to rebuild the posi, where to buy rebuild kit?
    Thanks
     
  2. Aug 23, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I assume you are thinking about a "steering brake" strictly for traction control, as opposed to trying to turn tighter?
    If so, the concept may work (I have had this on many of my VWs), but often when needed in a Jeep on a tight trail or steep climb/decent, you already don't have enough hands and feet. How would you activate a front wheel brake? You really can't interfer with the hydraulic system needed for even braking for road use. I guess you could install rear backing plates equipped with parking brake cables up front?
    I think you would be much better off with someting like a PowerLok up front. There are some NOS PowerLoks on eBay right now for $200. My opinion is these are about the best non-selectable devise.
    -Donny
     
  3. Aug 23, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I expect the parking brake cables would not hold up to the repeated pivoting of the front wheel for steering. Maybe an electro-hydraulic servo? Modern off-road traction control does something like this ... I wonder how.
     
  4. Aug 23, 2018
    cjbilly

    cjbilly Member

    East Central Indiana
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    Checkout this article. I have had both sets on my VW's- cable operated along with hydraulic.
    To operated the hydraulic single handle cutting brake, push forward to operate one brake or pull back to operate the other. Dual handle is self-explanatory. (y)
    Cutting Brakes - 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine
     
  5. Aug 23, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Cutting brakes...........as mentioned above.......had them in my Jeep with powr-loks front & rear...................but the cutting brakes were applied rear only.........worked quite well on those slippery dirt , shale up hill slopes......where a tight front powr-lok had a mind of it's own direction wise ............just to get it to turn...used the single handle , push forward to go right and back to go left..... sure your hands are busy , but they work..
     
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  6. Aug 23, 2018
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
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    Yes I'm talking bout hydraulic not cable . When installed properly they don't interfere
    With normal braking. Assuming u have a dual master cyl.
    Might add it to my winter shop project list.
    Wonder single handle or twin stick?
    Heck, put it between the seats and give the passenger something to do, lol.
     
  7. Aug 23, 2018
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    No point to it on a front axle.
     
  8. Aug 23, 2018
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
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    I beg to differ?
    the wheel that's spinning can be braked to allow the other wheel to get traction and pull!
    this worked on rear of buggy.
    it should work on front of jeep?
     
  9. Aug 23, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Much easier to get some added brake steering from the rear when your front axle is engaged and partially locked..........
     
  10. Aug 23, 2018
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
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    it ant about steering its about traction.
     
  11. Aug 23, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    Well I think traction could be a use for a cutting brake in the case of an "Open Differential" at either end..........but just the same you could drag the brakes and get a similar effect..... so I'll agree with you there .....

    But , If I'm interested in traction......an open diff would be the last thing I would use.............most cutting brake's are in the rear to steer the front....
     
  12. Aug 23, 2018
    Sierra Bum

    Sierra Bum Member

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    I like the idea. Thinking outside the box, cool...a creative solution for sure. But really, a front power lok is a proven formula for traction, front or rear. Nobody complains about a Power Lok. If you do the bake mod, let everyone know how it performs.

    If you have a tapered dana 44 in the rear, Herm has a kit for the rear power lok. If its a flanged rear dana 44, and its stock, I think it has a trac-loc (I'm not sure there). If you're not sure what's in there, pull the cover and look at the diff to identify the posi you've got back there. FWIW, the Power Lok is the superior posi.
     
  13. Aug 24, 2018
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
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    I was under the impression that the 27 with 32s might not be strong enough for a power lock?
    Don't want to break it? I don't really do any radical driving, but love to hill climb,and play in the
    Mud.

    The rear is a stock 44, with a factory posi, I think clutches and springs?
    In steep rough trails, it slips occasionally.

    I think the steering brake applied to the spinning wheel (on front) would act kinda like modern day
    Tracction control? And be gentler on parts than a locker?
     
  14. Aug 24, 2018
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
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  15. Aug 24, 2018
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

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    I originally thought uall were talking bout a ratchet locker?
    A limited slip would be ok, didn't realize they were that cheep?
     
  16. Aug 24, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    Thousands of folks have powr-loks in the front of there Jeeps with a flimsy D-27 axle........as long as the tires are not to big...........should not be a problem.
    Gear wise you just have to pull the cover.......
     
  17. Aug 24, 2018
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

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    70 CJ? V6 or F head? The latter would be 5.38's, the former likely 3.73's but possibly the optional 4.88's-all assuming original gears.

    The best solution for this situation is a complete narrow track D30 replacement-at which point you don't have to worry about 32" tires and the choices for traction devices expands exponentially. I blew up the spiders in my D27 just backing up to turn around out in the backcountry-without any traction devices and the factory original H78-15 tires. My CJ maybe had 10k miles on it at that time, essentially new. Just my opinion, but I really don't think D27's are actually any stronger than D25's and I will not be spending ANY money doing anything to either.
     
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  18. Aug 24, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    That is the seller I was refering to in post#2. At least several uf us on this forum have purchased these from Matt at Quarter Ton. They may have superficial rust, but are factory sealed new PowerLok units. They are 4 series that work with 3.92 through 5.88 gears. You have to determine what gears you actually have, but a '70 with the F134 should have 4.27 gears.
    You are going to do what you want, but the consensus of this forum would recommend the PowerLok up front as the best and simplest solution to traction aids.
    Keep in mind that 32" tires are likely too tall for 4.27 gears (if that is what you have) with an F134 for power.
    -Donny
     
  19. Aug 24, 2018
    jeepermc

    jeepermc Active Member

    Western WA
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    Replace the stock carrier and spiders with a much stronger power-lok unit and forget about it. Trying to do cutting brakes and work with them effectively on a Dana 27 is not money and time well spent.
     
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  20. Aug 24, 2018
    Sierra Bum

    Sierra Bum Member

    The High Sierra
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    I'd have to agree with the rest.

    I did have a CJ5 that had a Dana 27 and a Power Lok. I never broke anything and I ran the Rubicon many times and several other hard trails in the Tahoe Sierra. That jeep also had a v6, an SM420, 4.88's (and so an 84:1 crawl gear), 33's and an aggressive power lok in the rear. As you will read, others have broken the Dana 27...with this set up I did not (luck?). Low gearing and easy on the throttle will help protect your drive train...but there's no guarantees.

    When I hear "posi", I think of limited slip. The Power Lok is a limited slip...and a very good one. It can be customized to be tighter too. But for your Dana 27 do not put in an aggressive (read tighter) clutch pack...

    A "locker", the ratcheting style, does not slip. They will differentiate while turning a corner, but not slip...Common ones are the Lock Right and almighty Detroit locker. The difference is the Detroit has its own carrier and is thus stronger while the Lock Right fits in an open carrier (this particular type is also called lunch box locker). Probably shouldn't put these in your 27.

    Again, for the rear, you have to know which "posi" it has to get parts for it. If its not a "locker then it's either a Power Lok or a Trac Lok (also a limited slip). Pull the diff cover, take picture of it and someone will identify it for you.

    You can look at the tag on the diff cover (if its there) to see what gearing it has in the axles...as long as you've got no reason to think someone changed it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
    FinoCJ likes this.
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