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Source for 1963 Tuxedo Park MK III Indian Ceramic paint?

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by jbjeeps, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Apr 18, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

    The Idaho side...
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    I had some links from the old ECJ5 site to a paint chart and some other info on the MK III paint, but they don't work anymore.

    We're going to be repainting the '63 in original Indian Ceramic. I've seen several different shades/colors referred to as Indian Ceramic. Has anyone got a source or paint code for the correct color?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  2. Apr 18, 2013
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    There is a Ditzler sheet here - http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Paint2.html - but the code is hard to read.

    Do you have a paint supplier? They should be able to mix what you need using the make and color name.

    Google is a wonderful thing - http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorco...manuf=Kaiser&smodel=Jeep&sname=Indian Ceramic

    and http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1968&manuf=Kaiser&info=yes&page=1

    According to the Acme sheet, Jeep used several different codes for this paint. Reds (and pink) fade terribly, so you'll likely need to match what you get with an area that has not been exposed, like the back of the dash or under the cowl.

    If asked, I would say your Jeep has been repainted, and they painted the top at the same time. I have not seen a top painted the factory color ... from the factory.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  3. Apr 18, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Tim, good reply as always!

    I did some searching, but I was focused on Indian Ceramic, I should have broadened it to Willys paint.

    We've got some good paint shops so I should be able to get it mixed locally. It seems that in the pictures I've seen, the Mk IV color is darker, more red/orange than the Mk III. I'm sure we'll be able to get close.

    And we've got a local chrome shop, so I'll be able to get all the chrome goodies redone.

    Repainted? That's possible. But I think it was done by the dealership at delivery. We know the original owner and the original dealership. We've talked to folks who knew him when he brought it home. From what they recall, the top was on it when new.

    But, my wife's decided to go topless with it, so the top is in storage. We'll keep it for possible future use.
     
  4. Apr 18, 2013
    1967 CJ5A

    1967 CJ5A Mike 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Just wondering, have you gotten a quote for all the small chrome pieces (Windshield hinges and latches, mirror, etc)? I'd like to get mine rechromed but it looks like its fairly pricey. I dont need any of the big parts like the bumpers done, but the smaller pieces are flaking pretty bad.
     
  5. Apr 19, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    No, I'm thinking I'll get that done in the next week or so. The shop I'm going to use changed locations and they won't be set up to chrome for another couple weeks. I'm just planning to do the small pieces too. I took the front bumper off last year so that I could put on a tow bar and the back bumper is fine the way it is for now.
     
  6. Apr 19, 2013
    culls

    culls Member

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  7. Apr 20, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks for that! I have a feeling there are more out there we haven't heard of, but we do like having something that's a bit more unusual.

    It took my wife a while to adjust to the color, now she likes it and that's what she wants it repainted with. I offered red, purple, white, etc. She said, "No, keep it original, Indian Ceramic".
     
  8. Apr 21, 2013
    culls

    culls Member

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    Nice. My mom wanted John Deere Green (to match the tractor parked next to it) until I found out that mine was a Tux and not some random Jeep that had been painted pink.
     
  9. Apr 22, 2013
    Stout

    Stout Member

    Quakertown, PA
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    My local paint shop was able to mix the original President Red in base coat/clear coat by finding the codes in their books. They said they could translate the code to any kind of paint I wanted from single stage to base coat. The only thing they couldn't do was lacquer because I guess it is mostly illegal nowadays.
     
  10. Apr 22, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    I contacted the local NAPA paint guy and gave him both the Ditzler/PPG # 71248 and the Dupont #93-96598H. He was not able to find it in his local info and his Martin-Senour supplier didn't have it either. He offered to attempt to match the color if I brought him a sample.

    So, I contacted a local PPG supplier. He did not have the PPG #72148 in his local database. He contacted the PPG national color library and they had #72148 in their database. They are faxing him a formula. He's going to make up a sample for me to check. If the color matches, then we'll talk about what type of paint to use.
     
  11. Apr 22, 2013
    all4jpn

    all4jpn Member

    fredericksburg,va
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  12. Apr 30, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Here's the first attempt. This sample was made up using the formula they got from their National Color Library using the
    #72148 code. I've put the sample up against the inside of the tool box lid. The sample looks more like the color I see on later Tuxedo Parks. From what I've seen, the Mk III's were a lighter color, not so much red.

    The difference between the two is more pronounced in person than in this photo.

    So, they're coming out to the house with a color camera. We'll see if that helps us get closer.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  13. Apr 30, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Cassie came by with her color camera and took a couple of samples. They'll analyze the results and see if they can come up with a match.

    [​IMG]
     
    Hellion likes this.
  14. Apr 30, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    No luck with the color camera, it produced the same darker red color as the first try. So I'm taking the glove box door to them so they can use it to match the color.
     
  15. May 1, 2013
    njranger

    njranger Sponsor

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    Don't know if this was addressed or considered, but are you sure that the color you're seeing on the Jeep isn't lighter due to oxidation? Maybe check under the windshield on the cowl? On my rust bucket tub, the paint looked almost new there. Just a thought.
     
  16. May 1, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Good question, thanks for asking. Most of the body color is oxidized and faded, but we're taking the color samples from the body side panel that was covered by the top (which was installed by the dealer when new), inside the tool box cover, inside the glove box and under the dash.

    And greetings to Warren County! I spent some time there a few years back. I left there the year your CJ-5 was new.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  17. May 3, 2013
    culls

    culls Member

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    The "new paint" is pretty much spot-on to what I found underneath the windshield frame trim pieces. Fairly dusky, but still recognizable as pink. So either it was shielded from oxidization, or the adhesive goo used to hold it in place darkened it noticeably.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  18. May 8, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Here's the latest attempt. The color on the left is the color we got when we used the Tuxedo Park formula that can be found on line. Too dark. The color on the right is 1993 Isuzu Coral Reef. Too light. In the center is the body panel that was covered by the door. The folks at the paint shop are going to start with the Coral Reef color and work towards the body panel color.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. May 9, 2013
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    I expect it's pinker in daylight. Both the camera and your monitor change the shade. To me, this looks way too orange for my mental picture of Indian Ceramic.

    I kinda like the darker shade here ... this picture is the same card, but looks much better on my monitor.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. May 10, 2013
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member 2022 Sponsor

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    You're right, monitors and cameras do vary. But on the monitor I'm looking at right now, the color in the picture of the bottom of the tool box looks just like it does in person.

    If I were picking a color I'd probably choose the darker shade too. But we're going to stick with the original lighter shade.

     
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