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Small Tig Machines

Discussion in 'The Tool Shed' started by Danefraz, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. Oct 24, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    All,

    Starting to consider finding a small TIG package that will do mild steel and aluminum. Not planning on melting together other exotics.

    Don't see myself doing much more than 3/16" anything rarely, if ever.

    I'm not going to do this for a living and just want a little box that will let me learn a little and do a little more...

    Ran across this the other day when I was buying a bottle of Ar-CO2 mix...

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K5126-1(LincolnElectric)

    Looks like a pretty complete package. I'd just have to find me a 100cf bottle of Ar to go with it for Al...

    Anyone spent anytime getting cozy with one? When I look at the blue stuff, I like it, but it seems much more than I need (and more than I want to really spend).

    Thanks for the opines and infos...
     
  2. Oct 24, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    That machine looks great. I generally dont use TIG for thicker stuff. It is a lot easier to TIG weld thicker material though. I have a larger 220 only model and it just isn't as useful as that one looks for portability and all around usability. I did only spend 600 bucks on my miller 180SD with a pile of collets and filler.
    Compare the miller model and see what kind of good deals you can get. Cyberweld online typically has great prices. Compare specs and prices and buy one. Must have foot pedal, HF start, etc..
     
  3. Oct 24, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Dane,
    Welding machines are a long term investment..........in you more so than in a machine , so it's hard to put any credence into anyone's choice or appeal towards any one particular welder , because only you know where it may lead you in the future, and I would not let price dictate what I need or should purchase..........Do your homework & research first while understanding the differences between features on other machines. Thickness or welding amperage and duty cycle normally dictates first choice and then features to follow.
    On the surface it looks like a decent machine and Lincoln makes good products , but the duty cycles are not very high meaning you will have to give it a rest every few minutes of welding.......

    If you think you will be getting into aluminum much that torch is just air cooled and the torch head welding on AC will heat up quickly..........not sure of that machine will accept a water cooled torch , but it is something to consider. Might also want to go to a local dealer and see if they have one set up that you can demo..............although the best price will be on the internet somewhere.

    You also made mention about needing a bottle of Argon for the aluminum , but It's also needed for shielding your mild steel welding also.....I think the choices in Argon are 80cf and then to 120cf I would go with the 120cf size and get or build a cart.
     
  4. Oct 24, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Thanks guys...

    Much needed input. Doing my homework - knowing where to start is why I posted. Could be shinola or it could be something else and I'd not know the fiddling difference until it was on my shoe, rubbed all over the car-mat stinking up the place.

    Minor tinkerer here with a desire to learn (oh, you smashed a thumb, how? do it again and show me... yep, that's how to smash a thumb). Sort of how I ended up with the Lincoln 140. Planned that it'd be enough oomph for 95% of what I thought I'd ever need, and that was 5 years prior to starting the jeep project 4 years ago. I'll be under-rated for building my Saginaw mount and my bumpers, but I think I have that figured out too.

    Was at the AirGas dealer looking at the blue and red boxes while I was waiting a few minutes to do the receipt on my ArCO2 refill and chit chatting the guy here. Nice peeps, and always seem to be reasonable.

    Looking at the shiny new floor models got me thinking, at a quick glance ...
    1) oooh shiny blue and red boxes, lookitalltheknobsandbuttonsandwhatcouldIdowiththat...
    2) I never got the tips to convert my torches to propane fuel acetylene
    3) daughter is in the truck, no gawking or drooling on tools. She tells mom...
    4) I could take all the dang computers I have and that everyone asks me to fix/help them on, tig them all together at odd angles, take a picture of some wierd yard art, then add ample tannerite, and well, boom, drop the mic, a fitting end, and retire and go another direction ... (chugging thru the middle of a 20-odd year career in tech so far - let's say at this point, I miss rotary dial phones and party-lines in the neighborhood...)

    So far, my local guy I think, he's within 10-15% of what I've seen online with the little reading I've had time to do and prices I've had time to cross check, and that'll keep me local most of the time. He was honest and said almost what you said Terry... he added that one of his production clients uses it over his miller for smaller jobs, as it's 'good enough once it's setup for the project' ... (seemed a fair appraisal I guess).

    Yep on the bottle, that's fine. I had not fully engaged the brain as I typed.

    Terry, great advice as usual.

    Thickness is a factor. Duty cycle might be a factor. I'd hate to buy something that's 2x or more than I'd ever use, or find an excuse to use it for... until I had the one time when it's *really* needed for a 15min deal at some unknown point in the future... off to ponder.
     
  5. Oct 25, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    The old rule of thumb in buying a welder is always buy more or bigger than you currently need............again that is just a suggestion that only you can answer. The used market is also a good possibility.......there are many folks that buy new , use once or twice outfit it and it collects dust.........early transformer based machines are pretty bullet proof.........you have to be a little more careful on buying a used inverter machine due to the 100% electronics......and do the excellent support I would only buy Miller used. Good Luck!
     
  6. Oct 25, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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  7. Oct 25, 2016
    tomtom

    tomtom Sponsor

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    I bought a Square Wave 200 about a month ago. It was a bit of an impulse buy which is out of character for me. Lincoln was running a special where you could buy it and their MIG welder for $2000. A guy at work that already had the sw200 wanted to buy the MIG, so with minimal arm twisting I agreed to buying the TIG.

    He handled the transaction and ended up buying it online. The biggest benefit of that was no sales tax. He also got free shipping. I think it was from a place in Ohio.

    I had never even tried to TIG weld before getting it. I bought a 80 Cu. ft. argon bottle from the local gas supply, a HF cart, set it up and tried it out. On steel it worked great, stainless too, but I could not get a good bead on aluminum. I had a friend try it out who had some TIG experience and he had the same result. Long story short, it ended up being contaminated gas. Gas supply place told me that this sometimes happens with a new bottle. Anyway, got a different bottle and the aluminum beads look good now. My friends better than mine....lol.

    I have done a ton of practicing, mostly on 1/16" steel coupons and have been through almost two argon bottles. I have never hit the duty cycle on the machine, even while welding for several hours, although most of the time I'm only using 50-75 amps. On aluminum, I've played around with some 1/8" and it was fine. I have even laid some beads on 1/4" aluminum, but it really is using some heat on the thicker stuff. The air cooled torch and duty cycle would likely come into play if you were welding a lot of 1/4" + aluminum. At the higher currents, the torch gets hot quick.

    If the capacity of this machine fits your needs, I think you'd be happy with it. The advantage I think it has over some less expensive comparable machines (such as the alpha tig 200) is that it is from Lincoln and they would likely give better support in the future if there were ever any problems with the machine. I have had friends with import machines that worked great, but when they had problems with them 5 years later, they couldn't find and repair support.
     
  8. Oct 25, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    :lol: I have this same dilemma! Dang kids' idea of a secret is, "Mommy! Daddy told me to keep a secret! Wanna hear it?!"

    The one positive about a small TIG machine... you won't have to worry about the low duty cycle... with an air-cooled torch, you'll need that time to let your torch (and hand) cool off. :D
     
  9. Oct 25, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Absolutly correct about the air cooled torch and duty cycle. It can get very hot. You will need to put it down before the end of the duty cycle.
     
  10. Oct 26, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Hot hands. Noted. Used to get that from the brass screws in my boots stomping in white hot ashes.
     
  11. Oct 26, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    Why were you wearing your boots on your hands? :lol:
     
    47v6 likes this.
  12. Oct 26, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    crazy things happen when you work in the woods. Folks like gunner did it for a lot longer than I... it was a secret handshake everyone had to go thru at least once per incident.

    :lol::D:whistle:
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  13. Oct 27, 2016
    Admiral Cray

    Admiral Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member

    Bainbridge...
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    I have what has been called a suitcase TIG welder. It's a Maxstar 140. Mine is similar to this one...

    [​IMG]

    It will run on both 120V and 240V. Mine does not have a foot pedal (not wired for it). It works great for SS. Haven't used it on aluminum yet.

    A friend has permanently loaned me a big Dialarc - HF with a pedal and water cooled torch. I haven't use it yet...

    I really like my Maxstar 140...
     
  14. Oct 27, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    I'll put in a plug for the Lincoln Square wave 200.
    IMHO not as good as a Miller but....
    It is an excellent size for a hobby builder to have and what a great price for a brand new machine !
    The Hobart is also worth a good look.
    Forget all other makes unless they are old and used and working and cheap.
     
  15. Nov 9, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Dane.....What you decide ?
    You going all out with a Miller dynasty 210 DX ?

    Seriously I doubt you will ever wear out a Lincoln 200 squarewave unless you start welding for a living.

    Whatever you decide is cool with us but know that the inverter type welders are easier to move and cheaper to operate.
    If you want aluminum you must have an AC DC capable machine preferably with high frequecy or lift arc.
    Please don't buy a scratch arc machine.
    You need about 1 amp per .001" thickness of material
    Millers are likely all made in US and Lincoln is mainly US made.
     
  16. Nov 9, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Oldtime,

    Still shopping in my mind. While I'd like to have a stable with a full sized machine of Big Blue in it, that's a horse I cant feed right now. I suppose I could finish the jeep, then sell it, and that'd just about cover the cost.

    I have to decide if I trade my gun-funds for welder-funds for a while... saving my duckets either way. A few interesting opportunities have dropped in my lap recently... Meh. Choices...

    Leaning to the shiny new Lincoln machine for what I'll expect to need over the next few years. I have 220 in the garage I can get at easily...

    Not expecting to go for welding certs / become a full-time welder any time soon, just a garage hack that has a few projects lying about...
     
  17. Nov 10, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yeah that 200 Lincoln Squarewave is going to be impossible to beat for the money.

    Myself I'm hoping to find a good used industrial Lincoln V205 industrial inverter. (no longer made)
    Because I wanna do light 3/16" air arc with it too.
     
  18. Nov 19, 2016
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I've got a Lincoln V205, and used it very little so far. It is dual voltage, and thinks it is smart enough to know what its plugged into. My brother had one (I liked it so well, I bought one), but his fried its' self when he plugged it back into 220 after using on 115 on a remote job. The internet calls them "popcorn" welders because of the blown capacitors when this happens. Apparently, it thought it was still on 115, and the 220v jolt took it out.
    I call the manufacturer in Italy (sorry, but not US made!) and it was designed it to run only 220 (Euro voltage). When Lincoln contracted them in Italy, a spec was made for the floating voltage, which leads to the welder's downfall.
    I haven't figured out how to lock out the variable voltage, dedicating it to 220 only, so I have little practice so far. Its a great little machine, as long as I can keep it from killing its' self.
    -Donny
     
  19. Nov 19, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Wow that's interesting >
    I knew the V205T was made in italy but never heard of the input voltage problem.
    I still see the new ones sell for $3400 around these parts.
    I have my eye on a barely used one for $1500.
    Wonder if a guys better off with the Squarewave 200 @ $1400 new.
    Anyone know where the Squarewave 200 is made ?
     
  20. Nov 19, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    A random post from a forum on MillerWelds....

    "Many of the Lincoln Invertec TIGs were made in Italy... and were a hand grenade in a red box...

    The new SW200's are made in Mexico.... and it is till too early to know what their reliability is going to look like...

    I would wait a long while till others have done the beta testing... but remember... it is a low cost import.. regardless of the box color...

    Bargain...?? something had to be shaved to meet that price point... you get what you pay for... there is no free lunch

    just my 2cents worth... it is your dime...."
     
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