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Sheared off bolt in timing chain cover during water pump change (225 V6)

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by truckee4x4, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. Jun 19, 2008
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    Well, what should have been an easy evening's job has hit a snag - the last of the bolts holding the water pump to the timing chain cover on my '66 CJ5 225 V6 sheared off, leaving 1/2 of itself locked in the timing chain cover. Fortunately, it's one of the higher bolts on the passenger side, and it just screwed through about 1/2" of the water pump and 1/2" of the top of the timing chain cover, where it daylighted on the back side. My guess is this is why it seized shut in the first place. The pen in the first photo points to the sheared-off bolt, and it doesn't clearly show that the back of the bolt sees daylight...

    Anyway, I figured my best bet was to drill it out and re-thread it with a tap and die slightly bigger then the previous bolt. But then, as I was drilling it out, I thought, well, why go to the trouble, all it needs to do is hold the water pump to the timing chain cover an create a solid seal with the new gasket and RTV - why not just drill it out, not bother with tapping the hole, throw some extra RTV in the back and on the shaft of the new carriage bolt, and put a nut on the back side and just torque it to spec? This should work, right?
     
  2. Jun 19, 2008
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    Keep it wet with PB Blaster for several days (front and back), tap tap tap gently with a hammer on the remaining piece of bolt once a day, and put just a LITTLE heat to the surrounding metal once a day. That's aluminum, right? DON'T GET IT TOO HOT! Just warm it. Aluminum has much higher coefficient of thermal expansion than steel so it shouldn't take much to make the hole grow away from the bolt. Eventually the bond will break. Keep throwing the PB Blaster to it after you can get just a little bit of movement with vice grips. Better yet get some of those fancy sockets for removing rounded off bolts. Go slow and don't force it. Work it a little every day. This looks like a very easy bolt to get out if you are patient.
     
  3. Jun 19, 2008
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    I agree with Chilly... but if it's a through hole there is no reason you couldn't nut the back side once this bolt is out.

    You might consider antisieze on the bolts once you begin to reassemble :)
     
  4. Jun 19, 2008
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    I've started wiping a dab of RTV on backside of threaded through-holes to help prevent rust. And I'm replacing quite a lot of hardware with stainless. And of course I use anti-seize unless the bolt requires loctite.
     
  5. Jun 19, 2008
    truckee4x4

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    Thanks for the ideas....wish I would have read this before I started to drill....I bet the heat from the bits through the bolt fused what's left of it to the aluminum. I'll probably go with the drill it out wider and throw a nut-on-the-back method.

    The long bolts that go way into the timing chain cover are so goopy with black goo - would you guys suggest replacing the bolts, or just soaking them in degreaser or solvent overnight, steel-wooling them, and then tossing the old ones back in there with anti-sieze? I'd like to clean out the holes, but I don't have the garage space to start tearing the engine down until the winter so I'm just looking for a quick-fix to last through the summer before I get into a more serious frame-up resto later in the year.

    Now to a stupid question - when I have a gasket, and the manual calls for "smearing a thin coat of RTV-type gasket sealant" on the gasket and bonding surface - can I use the Blue RTV gasket maker or do I need to go back to the FLAPS and get something else. From what I could see at the hardware store where I bought the gasket maker, there was either RTV gasket maker or non-RTV gasket sealant. RTV is a type of silicone, but what's the difference between gasket maker and gasket sealant? I understand that gasket maker can be used in place of a gasket all by itself, but does it work in conjunction with a gasket? The new water pump I got came from AC Delco, and the gasket looks to be some sort of fiber/paper, not rubber.
     
  6. Jun 19, 2008
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    I've always used gasket sealant on paper or cork gaskets and used gasket maker for just that, making gaskets.

    Gasket sealant is sticky and only applied in a very thin coat.
     
  7. Jun 19, 2008
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    You drilled through the bolt already? Did you shoot it straight through the bolt or did it break out the side and drill the aluminum? If you have a nice hole through it don't go over-drilling the hole. You're 99% of the way home! Just keep it wet with PB Blaster, tap tap tap, light application of heat, try to get a little movement with vice grips after a few treatments. Or an easy-out since you have a hole.

    Put a 357 magnum cleaning brush (or whatever fits) on the end of a short length of cleaning rod and buzz that hole. Irrigate with PB Blaster before during and after. You'll rinse the crud out. I wonder if water or oil was leeching into the bolt passage? I'm working on my 304 and it has similar setup with water pump over the aluminum timing cover. My holes were full of rusty silty material too.
     
  8. Jun 19, 2008
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    If all else fails I can remove it for you. I have removed a bunch of broken bolts from timing covers without flaw.
    Just ask Sparky.
     
  9. Jun 19, 2008
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Yup!
     
  10. Jun 19, 2008
    truckee4x4

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    The hole through the bolt just touches the aluminum of the TC cover on one side.... I'm headed to Reno tonight so I'll hunt down some PB - thanks for the suggestion! But thanks for the offer Sparky! I'm sure that later on this year when I really get down to the resto I'll be sending you one part or another with stuck bolts.

    Regarding the longer bolt passages into the timing chain cover - how much time would you guys suggest I spend on cleaning them out now? Like I said, I'm trying just to get through the rest of the summer at the moment (the bearings on the existing water pump were shot and the fan was wobbly, hence the change now...), and this winter I'm going to do a more thorough teardown (I know if it aint' broke...don't fix it, but the grime/goo/oldness/rust everywhere is killing me...) and I'll probably have the TC cover off the block to service and check the timing so should I just put off serious cleaning of the bolts and passages until then?

    Sorry to be asking such stupid questions, I'm new to this and I want to learn how to do things properly and you guys are such a good source of advice and info!
     
  11. Jun 19, 2008
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    If you guys like P-B Blaster you'll absolutely L-O-V-E Aero-Kroil. Same principle, just a better product. This stuff is absolutely amazing!

    I've never seen it for sale locally, only online.

    www.kanolabs.com
     
  12. Jun 19, 2008
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Not sure what I offered, but your welcome.

    Mcruff is the one who does the machine work though. :)
     
  13. Jun 20, 2008
    stalin440

    stalin440 member

    Elmira, NY
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    i have also ran into this same problem, drilling was a real pain. very easy to tear up the aluminum if its not drilled perfect. i didn't have a drill press though. lots of pb blaster, patience and a little heat usually works. permatex now makes a gasket maker called the right stuff. dries in like a minute and works really well. i used it on my t-case in my tj. just apply it, torque it, and go!:driving:
     
  14. Jun 24, 2008
    mortten

    mortten I can’t put my finger on it 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I have gotten Kroil at Ace Hardware.
     
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