Selecting A Single Tie Rod Method

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by Mr Plow, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Every bump transmits back to the steering wheel in them...I can only imagine death wobble in one.
     
  2. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    That's what mine was....I can only say I didn't feel it was worth it. Personally, I think checking tire balance would be the first step regardless of what else you do. It certainly can't hurt anything to try the conversion especially the simplest route. What size tires do you have?
     
  3. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

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    Great point Glenn. 15” rims. 235. 75r15... nothing crazy. I think I will start with balance. Then chase down the long tie rod solution. Then.... if that feels lousy could just switch back or try the two hole knuckle switch. Appreciate all the input around here. I know this has been covered in various forms over the years. Cheers
     
  4. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Let us know about the results of your tire balance. I'm personally very curious about it. :)
     
  5. Nov 29, 2017
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor

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    I would go with two hole knuckle . and change out ross box .
    you get rid of a lot of moving linkage
    my buddy just finished his steering change over . manual box . 2 1/2 turns from center . left or right
    but jeeps far from being road tested yet :rolleyes:
    CAM00525.jpg CAM00526.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  6. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

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    Twin2 looks cool... Glenn will do. I think I am going to take tires to shop tomorrow. Thank So!
     
  7. Nov 29, 2017
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member Sponsor

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    yea, regardless the tierod ends need to be tight. if there is slop in the joints now just flipping the one down and adding the longer one piece rod won't do much. the tie rod flip helps with the bump steer mostly
     
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  8. Nov 30, 2017
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs Sponsor

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    Exactly right. I ran the 1 piece tie rod with the drag link attached the tie rod for years then switched to a two hole knuckle. Reduced steering effort and less bump steer.
     
  9. Nov 30, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    Back in the '70s, I installed a JCWhitney 1 piece tie rod as Termin8ed described in post #17; short original rod from bellcrank to passenger side, one piece rod between knuckles, using the double joint end at passenger knuckle to accept the short rod.
    Previous to that, I had a bump in the road that if I hit between 35-40mph, it would death wobble every single time. I followed a friend riding ahead of me in the back of a pickup while he watched me hit the bump. He said when it death wobbled, the front tires would alternate from tow out, then tow in, again and again in rapid succession.
    When I installed the 1 piece rod, even with the original worn tie rod ends, I never had the death wobble again.
    I kept that same setup when I installed a Saginaw box a year or so later.
    -Donny
     
  10. Nov 30, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

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    Hey Doug - great feedback! Donny, thank you as well!
    Very reassuring to hear the 'single hole knuckle - one tie rod' is a good start and that the 'double hole knuckle - one tie rod' can be done a little later down the road. I noticed that the long tie rod is typically cut at 34 5/8" length due to the use of jamb nuts that make up roughly an additional 7/8".
    Does anybody out there have exact measurements for the drag link and TR lengths using jamb nuts and the 'single hole - one tie rod' mod?
    Thanks all!
    PS hoping to get the balancing done today as well...
     
  11. Nov 30, 2017
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs Sponsor

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    Here's a couple of pictures for reference, you can see the new drag link and the two whole knuckle, but I still have the old tie rod with the tie rod end with the extra hole in it in place. You can also see where the nut from the old drag link attachment used to hit against the shock absorber body, it's pretty tight in there with that setup.
    One of these days I'm going to change out to a solid tie rod end and longer tie rod... 20171130_064155.jpg 20171130_064220.jpg
     
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  12. Nov 30, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    FWIW I still have the two piece tierods with stock suspension & have never experienced any death wobble or even noticeable bump steer.

    YMMV.

    H.
     
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  13. Nov 30, 2017
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs Sponsor

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    Stock height & tire size? I think that's an important distinction...
     
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  14. Nov 30, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    With stock-ish size tires, fresh tie rod ends, and tight bellcrank bearing/bushing, the original two short rod setup works fine. Its the combination of all the wear points added together that can lead to death wobble.
    -Donny
     
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  15. Nov 30, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

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    thanks for the pics 'cjg'. Interesting for sure... I have had a full breakdown from the connecting rod to the hubs and I am pretty sure everything is tight as per the manual. I have the old Ross set up (not bad but certainly some slop) and I do have a 2.5 lift with new springs. I just dropped off the tires for balancing and should have those back on later today...
     
  16. Nov 30, 2017
    Beach66Bum

    Beach66Bum Member Sponsor

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    Same for me. And the Ross box steering.
     
  17. Dec 3, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

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    Update: hey guys. I brought the front tires to be balanced. They don’t do a before and after reading. The just take weights off and balance from scratch. I noticed when I dropped tires off there was a small one inch weight on the inside of both rims. When I picked them up there was about 3 inches of weight on inside and even more on outside. Hahah guess they were off! Drove jeep and did well. Thanks for the help guys.
     
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  18. Dec 3, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

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    One thing I've found over the years... it is vital with these jeeps to find a shop with a dynamic balancer, as opposed to a static balancer. Dynamic balancers will not only find straight-line imbalance (like a static balancer), but also side-to-side imbalance. This inside/outside imbalance is IMO the biggest contributor to death wobble.

    If the wheel or tire has a heavy spot on the outside of the top and the inside of the bottom, a static balancer will show it is balanced, but the tire will want to wobble when put in motion, setting the stage for death wobble. A dynamic balancer will detect the side-to-side imbalance, and weights will be put on opposing corners to cancel out the imbalance.
     
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