Selecting A Single Tie Rod Method

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by Mr Plow, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    Ok, sorry for the post but I cant find the exact answer to this. I want to go with a simple one tie rod conversion on my 66. I bought the beefier 3/4" TRE's and was going to simply put the two hole TRE to the passenger side etc... BUT Herm doesn't sell the one long TR for the 3/4" thread... So make your own you might say? What is the best rout? Buy 5/8" ID DOM tubing and try to have it threaded OR weld inserts into 1" ID tubing? The local machinist says they can weld the inserts but will only take cash no receipt because the jeep is street legal and he doesn't want responsibility if it breaks. SO that FREAKS me out to hear haha.
    ..... OR
    Do I sell the dam 3/4" TRE, go back to the 11/16" TRE on the jeep now and just stick with the one long tube offered by Herm? Sheesh. Thanks for reading! Appreciate the info!
     
  2. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    Also, I only plow with this and don't plan on torturing the ol girl in the white mountains anytime soon. When converting to the single TR which old tie rod do I use as the drag link? Passenger or Driver side? Is it worth upgrading the drag link to a thicker/stronger version? Thanks again!
     
  3. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sorry this doesn't answer your question but if you only plow with it why do you want to convert? What are your expectations from the conversion?
     
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  4. Nov 29, 2017
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Sponsor Sponsor

    Sacramento Ca.
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    74Renegade taught me how to make mine. All the info and discussion is in my build thread starting here Muzikp's Sometimes Driveable Build

    It was really easy to do and not very expensive at all.
     
  5. Nov 29, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Easy to make if you have the equipment............either by threading the DOM tube with Right & Left hand Taps.......or weld in threaded tubing ends.......or call Parts Mike here in California...........he has a complete inventory of TRE's for different applications..........and can make you a threaded tie rod to your size & dimensions............ 4x4 upgrades and parts for Jeep, Toyota, Broncos, Scout trucks - Categories
     
  6. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    Hi Glenn, well I run local errands with it and have had the Death Wobble two times in the past 8 months. Once last week. Scary BUT at least I knew what it was.
    Thanks guys for the links! Will read up next. I did find this : Kartek Off-Road Custom Made 4130 Chromoly Tie Rod For 3/4" Heim Joints And Rod Ends On Both Sides - Kartek Off-Road they seem like an option as well. In case anyone wants to know - the 3/4" is a 16 count tread - didn't know that before. I guess its rare but 10's do exist but not as a TRE. Cheers D
     
  7. Nov 29, 2017
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    Speedway motors also sells tie rods by the inch already threaded.
     
  8. Nov 29, 2017
    '74Renegade

    '74Renegade Sponsor Sponsor

    Fair Oaks, CA
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    HA! Not sure that I taught you, you seem to do just fine on your own. And mine still aren't done yet, I'm a huge slacker.

    All told the do it yourself method ran me about 100 bucks for both the tie rod and drag link made with 5/8" ID DOM. That includes all new TREs and the taps. Of course Muzikp and I split the cost of the taps so that cut the cost a bit.
     
  9. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    I thought you meant nothing but snowplowing, period. ;) I understand the death wobble and the desire to eliminate it and don't blame you a bit there. Many moons ago I got a 1 piece tie rod from J.C. Whitney. I installed it and tried it but ended up taking it back off because it actually made the Jeep harder to turn, but that was not setup using the 2 hole knuckle.
     
  10. Nov 29, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Really? Any idea why that would be so? I'd think the geometry would not be that different from the two-piece.

    Enquiring Minds Want to Know...
     
  11. Nov 29, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Is there reason to think a 1-piece tie rod will fix wobble? I thought the main complaint about the 2-piece arrangement was bump steer.

    I thought that real DW was more common on the coil spring Jeeps, like the XJ. There, it's really scary, with the tires slamming back and forth between two directions, forcing you to stop driving. CJs, especially the closed knuckle axles, wobble but wen present it's just an annoying shake in the steering wheel. I'd think DW in a CJ would be more about tire balance and sloppy king pins and bell crank. Has the OP been through the knuckles?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  12. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    Hey Guys, yes. the knuckles have been thoroughly serviced. Bearings, seals etc. Actually when I first bought the jeep we noticed the seals badly warped and the closed knuckle was loosing 'pudding'. Bell crank inspected well greased. For me I had to come to a complete stop the last DW. REALLY started bouncing at about 45mph - had to come to a near complete stop. So wouldn't the single rod at least be a solid mod?
     
  13. Nov 29, 2017
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    You may be right about the coil front ends - no experience with them. In terms of the CJ with 1 piece tie rod - this is my experience: you definitely get bump steer, but it 'steers' both wheels in the same direction (to the right). With the original 2piece design, the bump steer is much more concerning as it steers both wheels outward (the right one to the right, and the left one to the left), which creates a pretty unstable and very squirrely feel. I don't really know if that is what people call death wobble, but a short wheelbase cj traveling at highway speeds is pretty scary when it cannot decided which direction to go. At least with the one piece, it may dart right, but that is easier to correct and keep under control. I don't love my ross steering - mostly due to the slop that comes with wear on the pins etc - but its definitely better with the one piece conversion. If it didn't have high wear design issues, I would be fine with it.

    I haven't noticed a significant change in steering effort with the 1 piece on the original 1 hole knuckle - but the drag link is not at the most effective angle when it connects directly to the tie-rod instead of the knuckle. And the drag link - tie rod connection can have clearance issues with the top of the right front leaf spring - although putting in caster shims will help this as a secondary benefit. Of course, a 2hole knuckle will provide better drag ling angle, both reducing a little bit of the bump steer as well as maybe reducing steering effort.

    I think Doug (colojeepguy) down in the springs had the 1piece set-up with the 1hole knuckle, and has switched to the 2 hole knuckle - he might have some input on how much improvement there is with the 2 hole knuckle.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  14. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    I felt that moving the point where the steering connects to the far right instead of close to centered increased the amount of leverage needed to turn right. If I remember right turning left wasn't affected as much. Anyway I didn't leave it that way for long because I didn't like it. Honestly I didn't put a whole lot of effort into trying to figure anything more out....I just knew I didn't think it was worth having it that way. Maybe it's different with a V6 box since it has a different ratio?
     
  15. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    I'm with Tim on the death wobble thought. I've never felt it was because of the steering design, instead as mentioned tire balance being the biggest (to me) cause and mechanical condition of steering and axle components. I've had death wobble happen and tire balance cured it. I don't recall ever having a bump steer problem in a CJ.
     
  16. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    Hm. Alrighty. I will take them down the shop to be balanced. There are weights on inside of rim for front tires. But since I never did the balancing, I should not assume it is correct. Thanks guys! I have a two hole knuckle but was feeling a little intimidated taking the locking hubs off and swapping itt out. Good news is that itt was torn down a year ago and shouldn’t be hard to pull back apart.
     
  17. Nov 29, 2017
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member Sponsor

    Mason, MI
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    Ive had the death wobble happen in my cj going 25 mph and had the pleasure of driving various customers cars with deathwobble. 3500 with a cummins is a blast:shock:
    My cj may have had low tire pressure but the steering was sloppy.
    Ive found the wranglers its usually a combination of ball joints, and steering linkage.
    Low tires alone shouldnt cause death wobble. It just amplifies the problem.

    I'm not sure if youve tried it but on my old jeep i did the tie rod flip? Not sure what its called but the tie rod end that attaches to the bellcrank gets moved down to the pass knuckle. Then a tierod goes from the drivers knuckle to the hole in the tierod on the passenger side.
    Making any sense?:confused:
     
  18. Nov 29, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    That would be the one piece design, right? You must have gotten a longer tie rod for connecting the knuckles.
     
  19. Nov 29, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Try it in a Deuce &1/2 o_O

    Hanging onto the steering wheel results in you being bounced around the cab like a rag doll :shock:
     
  20. Nov 29, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    termin8ed: that's what I was considering. just go little simpler with one long TR - wheel to wheel, then the drag link from the pass wheel to the bell. Too many avenues to go down - haha. One post over at cj2A did this and he seemed happy with it BUT i do not have any concrete feedback regarding before and after one tie rod conversions as they relate to DW. I just had a NOS tranny put in and a HD clutch so I will be more inclined to drive the jeep more often when I don't plow with it. So... from what I read, the single conversion is helpful. I would not do the flip itself at the moment but that may also be in the cards someday.
     

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