Saginaw Power Steering (pics) Please Add Yours!

I don't think anyone could make a kit simply because every Jeep has different equipment or needs ..........manual steering would be a similar build..........The fact is you have to mock everything up and continue to judge and fit as the build evolves...........point is the box can go in a few different locations which will be dictated by the front end geometry first and the approach to the steering column next..............as you see in mine I breached a hole in the cross member and fitted the box in there to get the best approach angle to the column while keeping the angles from the Pitman arm & Drag Link to the spindle correct...........lots of measuring and work but doing so gets the best steering results!

 

Sweet, but you obviously don't have a 4 Banger w/the stock motor mount unless you reconfigured it.

How did you attach the steering shaft to the steering column ?

Thanks for the help,
Jim

 

Look what I found in my parts that was given to me.

Don't know if that pitman arm will work on the first pic or ?

I got these two when I got the '48 in trade for that motor I had.






Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

It would not matter to me what motor is in there as I said , you will have to make adjustments in where it all gets mounted based on the need..............its all custom!
If your using a stock old Ross column that shaft has to be cut away from the old steering box..........and the outer tube and shaft get cut to fit........the tube would need a bearing or bushing installed in the end to support the shaft. A plate on your floor would be built to support the outer tube as it passes through the floor. The shaft that now sticks out past the end of the tube into the engine bay gets a U-joint. From there the shaft has to find its way to the front of the steering gear......In my case if the box is aimed correctly only one Universal is needed................... some applications need two to get around objects.....................Hope that helps!

 

Thanks, that helps a lot.


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

Here is a few more pictures that may help you with your questions...........lots of ways to get there.....you just need to pay attention to placement of all of the critical components so that they all work together to get you the best steering end result.

Pillow block that contains the shaft coming through the cross member..........when ever you have a shaft that extends away from the input shaft of the gear box its a good Idea to stabilize the end other wise front input bearing and seal will suffer.

This is a plate on the floor that holds the column in place.........there is a top half to the clamp that's not shown.

Column coming through floor.......Just a temporary fitting during this stage

Here are some of the parts, when you extend the steering shaft through the cross member its a good idea to support it on the other side with a Pillow block like this. here is also the U-joint, hub and short shaft before assembly.

Extended shaft welded to hub

 

Wow, that is awesome.

Where did you purchase your parts from.

I'm in a small town so I will probably have to order.

Thanks again for your effort in helping,
Jim


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

Jim , some of those parts I built or were modified by me............Source's like Jegs, Summit, Speedway, and then the Steering people like Flaming River & Borgeson all have components from the steering gear's to the aftermarket tilt steering column's and everything else in between............go on line to there sites and plan your project and then start sourcing what you need. I see you have some used parts........keep in mind that sometimes the parts you have may not totally suit the application.......so keeping your mind open to alternatives is a good Idea.................plenty of folks here including myself to help you with your project.

 

Ok. So, i've read 16 pages of what to do's and I have to admit, I still feel over my head.

I've got a 57 F head. Stock steering. I followed all the instructions to get the wheel off the shaft (hoping to remove the fiberglass tub) and I'm trying to map out a PS setup. Also, I woefully unprepared for how hard it was to get that wheel off. Just when I gave up and sat down in defeat, i heard a pop and it slid right off.

I have to remove the entire steering box? That looks pretty involved...but, then I need some type of universal joint at the base of the steering shaft...and I removing what I'm going to refer to as a worm gear? That might not be the correct terminology, please feel free to enlighten me, I'm not too proud! Then I have to shorten the shaft, install the u-joint, extend from u-joint to the PS box and that connects to my steering rod (tie rod?) where does the pump go? Do I need multiple u joints?

The pictures and explanations are wonderful on here but damn if I can't wrap my head around it. I apologize guys...but, any help would be great.

 

Not sure about your engine application as I have the v6 and live in that bubble but:
As to the pump you may want to look at you belts and see if you can/have a double v pulley on your generator or alternator or may be the water pump. Then you need a bracket to mount it and a belt to drive it. I will be using the smog pump bracket area on my v6 to mount the pump.
Yes, you have to cut the worm gear from the shaft. You will need a floor mount bearing to pass the shaft thru and mount the end of your column to. I've been told there are a lot of rat rod options related to this. Then you need to map a path to your steering gear, generally mounted on the front frame behind bumper. You may need a number of universal joints and or heim to make the connections.
Might best be to sketch it on paper then mock with wood dowels (cheap) the path.
Custom and fabrication is what this mod is in a sense, but it has been documented here and elsewhere 1M times. Plan it, mock it, measure thrice and then make it work for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So I'm assuming you want to use your stock original column? Correct? If so then Like danefraz mentioned.............the complete steering gear has to come out and the column removed from the steering gear and the internal steering shaft has to be cut away from the steering box and the attached gear.........that alone will make the box inoperable.......what you want from the old box is the shaft in the middle that is splined on the end that holds the steering wheel on...........the length after you remove it will have to be cut again once you make a plate to hold the bottom of the steering column on the floor...........see picture , that has a clamp upper & lower and secure's the column at the floor while your original dash clamp does the same job at the dash......... The steering shaft extends through there into the engine compartment and there a universal joint gets attached that heads towards your new front mounted Saginaw gear box..........It takes at least one joint at the firewall and perhaps one more before the gear box...although if your gear box is mounted at the correct angle one could get away with just one joint. See Post # 149 for a few more views.
The key here is the planing and fitting before you make anything permanent.............It's OK to ask questions.........plenty of smart people on here.

 

Ok.

So, I'm going to remove this guy entirely. Chopping off the bottom of the shaft separating it from the box. That will remove the whole shaft and innards. Then, remove the box from the frame. Keep the inner portion, mock it up, support it at the base and then run it out to my ps box. The pump will be mounted elsewhere, connected by a pulley to my alt and hoses where they fit.

I appreciate the quick responses, I'm trying to not be dense but, this is a matter of steering here which is a big deal!

 

The column ( outer tube) will be separate from the inner shaft......the inner shaft is what gets cut away.........watch out for the loose bearings at the top of the column, save them you either need to replace or reuse. Keep in mind in may take you a few days to do this notwithstanding the time to order parts..........so once you cut your steering is gone. You'll need to think about steering gear, tie rod and drag link, probably new tie rod ends and probably a new Pittman arm coming off the steering gear. There are many ways to do the tie rods & drag link on a stock front end, again mounting the steering gear will involve welding and fabrication on both front frame rails and also may involve cutting a hole in the front cross member for the steering shaft to go through. Looking and planning a path / route for everything to fit is foremost.............Your front bumper, winch , tow bar all has to come off.......Post some pictures of your engine compartment so we can see what you have in the way.

 

Tarry,

I apologize, the wrong picture uploaded. I've edited the post.

Dont mind the mess that's in there, I plan on cleaning that all up. I'm removing the tub to box the frame and clean it up a bit. Here's another view, if that helps. My plan, is to make sure my frame is solid before sinking money into it. If the frame is good to go, I will be able to add the PS (safety) and I'm going to go to 11" drums until I can make the conversion to disks on the front there. Engine runs and although it looks rough, my grandfather kept it running and lubed up while it sat in the barn for 20 years.

 

I hope you guys don't mind but, i've been asking around for more insight as well! You can never have too much knowledge I guess!

My family friend asked the following:

When you have time and start researching the universal joints I will need the technical specs. The spline, max working angle, shaft diameter etc.

My question is...is there a standard size? It looks like the AA kit says you need to machine the shaft to fit a 7/8 u joint after you cut the worm off. Is this what he is asking?

 

Only you can answer what your friend is asking............Have your friend research the catalog pages or website of either Flaming River or Borgeson.......they both make a bunch of steering gear products including U-joints and they have all the data there on U-joint angles.
The stock shaft in the column is .884 the closet size to that is .875 or 7/8"..........so yes you do have to chuck that shaft up in a lathe and knock off about .012 thousand's so the joint will slip on. The standard shaft coming forward to the steering gear is the double d shaft with is a collapsible style shaft which comes in many lengths as seen on the AA site.
No there is no standard size. The system is custom built depending on what column and what steering gear you use and how many obstacles may be in the way.
The A/A kit is a pretty good kit...........I've never used one as I just build the parts to fit the application. I use the same box that AA suggested which is a Saginaw series 800 4-bolt HD steering gear........that has the 13/16" x 36 spline input shaft. Steering gear ratio's are important in picking a steering gear for a short wheelbase rig such as a CJ-5........I would recommend a variable ratio box .........this would be slow in the middle and fast at the edges.........simply put while going straight ahead the ratio is slow so that the vehicle does not wander , then while turning either L/R the ratio picks up so that the vehicle turns faster out at the ends. If interested in having a discussion about the right steering gear for your project contact Tom Lee of Lee Manufacturing in Cal. 818-768-0371 by far one of the smartest guys around in steering gears.
One last thing as I mentioned earlier when doing the install everything has to work together and be mounted in the correct location so that each component's location complements each other..........point is don't mount the box until you have figured out the best route for the steering shaft , the correct angle from the pittman arm to the spindle and clearance between the tie rod and drag link under spring compression.........there is a narrow window of placement where everything should fit just fine.

 

Tarry,

Thanks again for all your insight. I know I've asked a few of the same questions multiple times but, I truly feel I have a grasp on this now. I'm going to get everything mocked up, and measured multiple times before placement. In all honesty, I'm probably going to spend a solid month on this alone. I know I can do it faster but, it's 3 degrees outside around here and I've got plenty of time to tinker in the garage!

This site continues to feed my passion for this Jeep without making me feel like any part of it will be hopeless! When I take her through the yard for the first time...it's going to be a great day!

 

dubc56 , you have the right attitude, take your time , mock up , clamp things , make some changes until everything is working together.........everything will be a slight compromise .......once there , weld it up. If you can find one , take a look under a 1980 CJ-5 with P/S. That factory gear is a 4-bolt Saginaw .........the mounting will not be exactly the same but the similarities are there and may help you visualize your project a little better. U-joints are for correcting slight angles..........but not for correcting improper placement of components.

 

Is saginaw almost a catch all term?

I can get a reverse steering box from a local yard for pretty cheap from the following donors.

91 or 92 E150
97 F150
97 F250
or a few different Ford Rangers.

Is one preferred? Will these work for the power steering setup?

Part two...would any of these pumps be worth salvaging as well to complete that part of my setup?

 

Anyone?