Saginaw Power Steering (pics) Please Add Yours!

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Mcruff, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Jan 24, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,139
    I did reuse the captive nuts....never seen a reason to change them..........the early dash and column mount pretty much dictates where that column goes , if it exits higher on the engine side that gets the steering wheel more in your lap........most like to poke a hole up higher in the dash, much like the later Jeeps did after 72...........You should be fine on the angle at the U-joint either way as long as your joint starts right at the firewall face.....

    As far as a brace for your firewall , take a look at that second photo again........most of the force the swing pedals create is cancelled by the brace on the end of the pedal set inside that is attached to the cowl above. Then a small plate made out of .125 metal like this one shown below is all you need out front to stabilize the MC & Booster on the firewall.

    Looks like a nice Diesel conversion..........Good Luck!
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jan 27, 2016
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Member

    Sheboygan
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    640
    working up the nerve to commit to a power steering conversion on my 70cj5. I have all the parts. the only thing holding me back now is fear. any reason why this shouldn't be attempted?
     
  3. Jan 29, 2016
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Member

    Sheboygan
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    640
    ive been reading about "too big of a box" and when you make small steering adjustments you could end up in the ditch or worse, cross the centerline. is this being blown out of proportion? the steering box in question is from a 1986 cj7.
     
  4. Jan 29, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,139
    "Too big of a box?" Not sure I understand that term!.............Probably more so talking about the steering gear's internal ratio...........meaning once a steering input signal is given at the steering wheel , how fast or at what ratio is the sector shaft / Pittman arm responding to that input signal?

    Some gear boxes are fast , and some are slower, that gets determined by the engineer that builds the car.........not one gear is the same as the next unless it came out of an exact same vehicle...............Some boxes can be valved to be what is called a variable ratio.......which is what is normally preferred in a short wheelbase vehicle.

    The term "Slow in the middle and Fast at the edges" is what most steering gear people refer to........this means that going down the road in a straight ahead position.......the sector shafts reaction to the steering input is slow and thus helps the short wheel base vehicle to travel in a straight line.........conversely once the motion signal at the steering wheel is increased to make a turn , the internal ratio becomes faster to aid in that turn.......
     
  5. Feb 2, 2016
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,259
    IMO, definitely. I've been running a C3 Corvette box in my 3B for 40 something years. Something short of 3 turns lock to lock. As long as the rest of the system remains snug, there isn't a problem on or off road (assuming you have power steering). I rather enjoy it.
     
  6. Feb 7, 2016
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist Sponsor

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    4,567
    Besides slop in the steering their are several other things that cause the box to feel this way.
    To much hydraulic pressure in the pump, making it to easy. They are adjustable. And to little caster can cause it to wander all over the road.
     
  7. Mar 8, 2016
    Renegade ll

    Renegade ll Member

    Thayne Wyoming
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    271
    Well I am getting close to finishing my power steering upgrade for the 71 cj5. I will add a few more pics when it is done. I made it kinda like Tarry99. I used the Advance Adapter conversion kit and went through the crossmember. As you can see I had to use a different drivers side exhaust manifold so it would not interfere with the steering.

     
  8. Mar 8, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,139
    Looks Good!
     
  9. Mar 8, 2016
    Renegade ll

    Renegade ll Member

    Thayne Wyoming
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    271
    Thanks for your help tarry99.
     
  10. Mar 8, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,139
    No Problem anytime, Good Luck on your Project!
     
  11. Mar 11, 2016
    willysgatorjeep

    willysgatorjeep #showmeyourwillys

    Bagdad AZ
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Here is a pic of my setup.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  12. Aug 18, 2016
    CJ5Jeeper

    CJ5Jeeper Teacher Jeeper

    Apple Valley, CA
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    80
    About a week prior to this year's Rubicon trip, while doing all my routine checks on the Jeep, I noticed a cracked steering box mount. Top quality bolt-on mounts can be purchased through M.O.R.E. if you have a '76 or newer CJ. I couldn't find anything bolt-on for CJ's prior to '76, so I made my own out of 3/8 steel plate and DOM tubing for spacers. Working with 3/8 steel takes patience, especially when drilling the holes. While I was at it, I purchased the collar for the steering box from M.O.R.E. and fabbed up my own steering box brace with my own tubing and plate steel. Most posts I've noticed on here are of Saginaw power steering conversions, but mine was already power steering. However, I always wondered why my steering box mount only had three holes when the box (gear) itself has four mounting holes. I guess manual steering box/gear mounts had only three holes and power steering mounts have four. A prior owner must have replaced a broken power steering mount with a manual steering box mount. I've owned the Jeep for 22 years, and I believe this is the last piece that a prior owner is responsible for. The new steering box and brace have made a huge positive impact with handling. The Jeep drives straight down the road with no bump-steer. I'm now even comfortable with my wife driving it (well, as comfortable as I can be). In the next few weeks I'll be replacing the tie rod and steering rod with DOM tubing and spherical rod ends (Heim joints). If you like the steering box mount, I still have all the templates, so fabbing one up wouldn't be too difficult.
    OLD BROKEN MOUNT
    [​IMG]
    MOUNTING PLATE WITH DOM SPACERS FOR STEERING BOX
    [​IMG]
    FRAME MOUNTS ALL TACKED UP
    [​IMG]
    FINAL WELDS
    [​IMG]
    FINAL WELDS
    [​IMG]
    ALL BOLTED UP
    [​IMG]
    NEW STEERING BOX BRACE
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Aug 18, 2016
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,471
    I see a gap between the bracket and the frame. Gap = no bueno.
    Did you put a space or washers in to fill the gap?
    Other than that it looks good.
     
  14. Aug 18, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,139
    Yep I seen the same thing.............never going to get it tight with a gap.
     
  15. Aug 18, 2016
    CJ5Jeeper

    CJ5Jeeper Teacher Jeeper

    Apple Valley, CA
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    80
    Good eye, that was an older picture. The gap was there due to some steel that had been added to the bottom of the frame to reinforce the steering box area. At the time, the steel didn't extend to the shackle mount, and I didn't have time to fix that prior to heading to Rubicon. However, I corrected that after returning from the Rubicon trip.
     
    jpflat2a likes this.
  16. Nov 5, 2016
    shaun

    shaun Member

    ohio, Beavercreek
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    Does the Saginaw box matter which vehicle it comes from?
     
    Mark T. likes this.
  17. Nov 6, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,139
    Yes, Many different configurations of Saginaw power steering gears exist that have been made by the GM subsidiary for many years for other car manufactures. Assuming your sticking it on a early Jeep with the old Ross steering there are many photos in this section that give you many ways the folks have adapted there's .................take a look under a late seventies / early eighties Jeep CJ-5........the basic components exist there including the addition of a Dana 30 front end......which will have a standard Tie rod from spindle to spindle..........The standard gears are normally referenced by either being a series 700 or 800 gear box. These should be 4 bolt mount with a 13/16" x36 spline input shaft.............the option on these boxes is variable ratio steering......or originals can be modified by competent steering gear re-builders , which for a short wheelbase Jeep is a nice improvement.

    Keep in mind your original steering column will also have the need to be modified to make this change as well the front axle spindles if you retain the Dana 27 axle........
     
  18. Nov 7, 2016
    mortten

    mortten Member

    Peninsula, Ohio
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    993
    Don't use a box from an Astro van. They are reverse rotation. DAMHIK.
     
  19. Nov 7, 2016
    shaun

    shaun Member

    ohio, Beavercreek
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    What about from a Cherokee? has a three bolt mount? if that doesn't work I might be looking for the 70s 80s cj5 box. but if what I have on hand works for my 62 cj. I'll use it
     
  20. Nov 22, 2016
    Bajatransit

    Bajatransit New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    26
    I've gone through this entire thread and have one question. I saw on one build where the install for steering gear was below the crossmember and avoided all of the work needed to go through the crossmember. I am assuming that that build underneath the crossmember was allowable because of a lift kit. Am I correct in this assumption?
    I understand that there's trade-offs in this. The lower the steering gear the more likely you might hit it on a rock. But by lowering it it also decreases the inherent angles from gear to steering column. I also understand that it's a custom install every single vehicle. Does anyone have any thoughts on this though?

    I am going to be installing 2.5 inch springs, with a 1.5 inch shackle kit. I'm wondering if I will be able to go under the crossmember with this amount of lift. Thanks
     

Share This Page

New Posts