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Ross Box Inspection

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by mickeykelley, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Apr 20, 2019
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    Wile doing some general things on Willie, I decided to check the fluid in the Ross steering box. Pulling the plug it looked like bearing grease was covering the hole so I pulled the cover. There was some sort of oil in it, but there was also grease. I had bought some of Brian's (metal shaper) special oil for the box so I figure it's a good time to clean it out and put in some juice. With it still in the jeep, what is best to use to flush out the old stuff? Thinking kerosene but not sure if I still have enough. Then I'm going to see if I can see inside to check for wear on the shaft nubs, hopefully withou having to pull the shaft out.
     
  2. Apr 20, 2019
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Sponsor Sponsor

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    Brake parts cleaner and a lot of rags
     
  3. Apr 20, 2019
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    And a lot of rags. Oh and more rags. Turns out I did have enough kerosene so got it rinsed out, took some pics and put it back together. It's hard to really tell, especially in the pics, but I think nubs are ok, at least for now. First step will be getting the slop determined in the rest of the system, then decide on the Ross.

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
     
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  4. Apr 20, 2019
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Sponsor Sponsor

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    Looks great
     
  5. Apr 20, 2019
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    looks clean to me
     
  6. Apr 21, 2019
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    What are y'all's thoughts on gasket sealer? It's a bear to get in there scrapping it off.
     
  7. Apr 21, 2019
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Looks real good to me. A wire wheel on a drill motor works well for me in tight places, also those flat plastic disc for cleaning off gaskets if you have them, Mickey, Good luck.
     
  8. Apr 21, 2019
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Sponsor Sponsor

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    Red permatex. Thin layer, put the cap on, and let it set up 24 hours before filling it with knuckle pudding.
     
  9. Apr 21, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    I tend to use the Permatex Aviation sealant on gaskets. Let it tack-up good before installing to minimize squeeze out.

    I also kind of like the method in the Novak instructions, thin coat of gray RTV on each side of the gasket, install finger tight, let sit for and hour or two then torque to spec. This let's the RTV set-up a bit, then when you tighten it down, you get good compression on the RTV as opposed to squeezing it all out.

    The Aviation sealant is a bear to clean-up or remove later, but it seals well and that's kind of the point.

    Anyway, a race car rear end where you are changing gears frequently, RTV is much more forgiving for re-assembly. Something I don't plan to be taking apart again anytime soon, Permatex Aviation...that's my approach.

    Good to put some anaerobic sealant on the steering box cover bolt threads too as they pass through the case into the oil.
     
  10. Apr 21, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member 2019 Sponsor

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    Id avoid any "efficient" powered methods of cleaning off old gaskets that uses abrasives or wires. Stuff inevitably flies into the box, contaminating it with hard particles that will acellerate wear. Cleaning the lid that way should be OK though.
     
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  11. Apr 22, 2019
    Greevesman

    Greevesman Sponsor Sponsor

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    Gaskacinch
     
  12. Jul 29, 2019
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    47937F87-1C1A-46E4-AB53-325E42D38A8D.jpeg Getting inside my Ross to prepare for the reassembly. Is this wear on the bearing race on the upper portion of the worm shaft bad enough to warrant replacing the whole shaft?
     
  13. Jul 29, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Yeah, that's pretty well pitted for a bearing race...it won't be kind to your new ball bearings. It is a low-speed bearing for steering (unlike a wheel bearing), so it won't fail or have issues right away; it may depend on how and how often you drive your Jeep. It would likely be okay in a pinch or for short term, but that isn't a recipe for longevity.

    If it was me and I had it all apart, I'd source a new worm/tube. I think Pete Debella has some NOS ones. You may need to give them a call to make sure you get the right one as there are several varieties.

    Willys Civilian Jeep CJ3B CJ5 - Steering - Peter DeBella Jeep Parts www.debellajeepparts.com
     
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  14. Jul 29, 2019
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Thanks TimE. I'll check into it. If I was going to laser cut a gasket for my box, what material and thickness do folks recommend?
     
  15. Jul 29, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    You should be able to get that machined down enough to make it serviceable, max you could go is whatever you had foe shims under the cap.
     
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  16. Jul 29, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    The side cover gasket is usually a standard paper gasket, maybe .015 thick. The thickness there isn't super critical, there is plenty of travel in the adjustment screw. Walcks sells the gaskets if interested.

    Howard has a point, a good machinist could chuck that in a lathe and clean up the race/radius...assuming all the rest of the worm and tube is good. You'd want to have them just clean it up though, no more.
     
  17. Jul 29, 2019
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    Check out a guy who goes by metalshaper on YouTube. He worked a miracle on a front splash pan for my wrecked wagon. There is also a guy here that turned and installed a bushing for my CJ brake petal. I'll remember his name a post it when I do.

    Mcruff. He knows his shit too.
     
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  18. Jul 30, 2019
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I have watched metalshaper's Ross rebuild video on YouTube many times, he knows his shit for sure. I will be playing and pausing it when I put mine together. He and Moses Ludel (and all of you guys on this forum :beer:) are guiding me through this part of the project!
     
  19. Jul 31, 2019
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I got a couple questions for you guys figured I'd post them here in this thread instead of starting a new one, hope that's the right move?

    I'm doing some research here to see if my Ross box consists of all of the original parts, or if they were mix/matched from several, and if it has been rebuilt or not before. Here's a bunch of pics.

    20190730_GK_untitled shoot-5.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-13.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-8.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-15.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-17.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-14.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-12.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-19.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-21.jpg 20190730_GK_untitled shoot-22.jpg

    The rebuild kit bearings number 22 (11 per side), whereas the original (Are they OEM?) bearings number 9 and are in nylon rings. The rebuild bearing cups are bigger and look to be of markedly lower quality than the originals. Also the sector shaft 15/16" bushings are equal length instead of different lengths. I watched metalshaper's video a few times so I feel like I have a good idea of what's supposed to be in there. There are different casting and stamped numbers on the three parts of the case, should these match if it was all the original? The gasket I got from Walck's takes the shape of the "lid" on the side of the box, which has it's own distinct shape from the gasket surface of the box itself. Is this a lid from an earlier, smaller box? I don't really care just find it fun doing the research!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  20. Aug 5, 2019
    wasillashack

    wasillashack Member

    Wasilla, Alaska
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    Ross steering has so many wear points, to me, unless you are into period correct, restorations, I would do a Saginaw manual or power steering conversion. Superior design, superior materials, less wear points etc, etc. The issue you are seeing and most of us have encountered is offshore parts. With the passing of NAFTA and GATT all our standards were left by the wayside and it will only get worse. A good bearing house may be able to find a suitable substitute for your roller bearings, take a sample with and they should be able to help. HTH Good luck!
     
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