Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Norcal69, May 11, 2020.
Wow super glad to hear you guys are OK! Lots of good info in here to digest too thanks all.
Agreed, it's not often that we get to see crash results/cage testing on our old-skool iron. - very important info to have, IMO.
So, talk to me a minute about sway bars...
I will be riding in a DJ5 - the old mail jeep. 2WD and light. They made no fun/cool aftermarket parts for this unit.
If I wanted to add a sway bar, is it to the front or rear? Where does it attach? How do I measure for one? How hard to mount one of these? Di I need to add steel to the frame or does it just pop in somehow? What, actually, does it do to help keep the wheels down on the road?
I'd like to use Steve's misadventure as a sensible learning experience for us newbies...
Added dash tie-in to my to do list. Man I'm glad he's ok
I'm not very familiar with DJ's...... But it should be pretty much the same as a CJ5. What is your plan for the DJ? If you are staying with stock stiff springs and stock height; a swaybar is probably not necessary.
Steve and I both have stock CJ7 sway bars adapted to our 5's.
DJs also had outboard rear springs that help immensely in the stability department.
I wouldn’t worry about it unless you get it out on the road and notice a bad leaning issue.
A sway bar works by transferring upward forces from one wheel to the other. If both wheels hit the same dip in the road, the sway bar allows that motion to happen unchecked. But when you go into a turn, one wheel compresses and the other unloads allowing body roll. The sway bar uses energy from the compressed side to pull up on the unloaded side to keep the vehicle level. This helps keep the center of gravity... centered.
The think I would think you would learn from this is not to jerk the steering wheel from side to side while at speed.
This is awful news, thank God Steve and his his doggie are alright!
Is crazy the body was nearly untouched. Id chalk your cage up for a win.
And I am absolutely not going to make a "number 3" joke, because that would be classless. . Mostly I'm glad he's ok and the jeep seems to have faired very well. Send him my best if you would Kyle.
I’m gonna get him a dolphin sticker..... cuz he’s an official flipper....
I would also tend to agree with your cage theory. There are many classes of cage and approaches to it. One huge concern when building mine was keeping my spawn safe while not beating my head to death in case of a slower speed rollover. I'll likely use your dash tie in trick soon , I like that! Don't know how I didn't catch that last summer.
Im glad to hear that steve and the dog are ok, it could have been a lot worse. Adding frame and dash tie ins are definitely going on my to do list.
This is exactly what I was getting at earlier. There are levels of roll cages based on intended use. Some are designed to protect you for one major event (high speed roll over) and then be replaced. These cages are very user friendly and afford lots of interior space..... no body contortion required for entry.
Other cages are designed for use where a roll over is not only expected.... but sought after... those kind of cages are built to take repeated abuse.
For example Ryan's Varg build. He claims that he is building the Varg so his wife can go get groceries...... but after watching videos of him racing around his property we know that he really is building the race jeep that he always wanted. There is high likely hood that the Varg will experience flight similar to the wright brothers first experiences.... This is the reason everything is so overbuilt. He knows it will get abused..... and he looks forward to it...
Just different cages for different purposes.
i think we don't know how is wife drives....maybe it IS the jeep for her
Only 120ft? The Varg can do better than that!
Bingo. She likes to fly.
But can she make it the required 120'???
Hold her beer...
This is just another opinion....
I agree with this to a certain extent, but I think my baseline is higher than some of the folks here. My cage is built a little differently, since the cage is doubling as my body mounts, but the passenger compartment section (and how it’s tied to the frame) I would consider my baseline.
My concern isn’t in the flop or flip or barrel roll, as much as it is in what caused it, and more importantly, where it happened.
My outlook is, without a full cage, you’re basically riding around in a go-cart. You’re sitting on an open platform. Any rollover is going to take a fair amount of luck to allow you to walk away. Energy transfer is happening through a windshield frame and possibly a stock roll bar into thin-gauge sheet metal. Plenty of people have walked away from this, but plenty haven’t.
A flop or rollover that happens on a street with nobody around is one low-risk case. That’s not the one I worry about. It’s the simple flop next to a tree stump or boulder that keeps me up at night. I personally wouldn’t inboard my spreaders, because, outboard, they offer a lot of head protection against a ground that isn’t always flat. The more open area there is for an object to enter the passenger area, the more the risk for serious injury. If the issue is your head is coming into contact with the spreader, it’s either too low, your seat is too high, or your belt isn’t working.
And what caused the roll? If forward speed is involved, the first likely contact point is going to be the front corner of the cage with inward/rearward stress. That’s asking a lot of the tubing to take that sort of unsupported hit without folding in on you. With outboard spreaders, it’s immediately transferring that hit throughout the whole box.
I also like to run a bar under the seats along the floor that connects the A and B pillars as an added side-impact protection. Even in passenger cars, one of the most frequent causes of rollovers is from a side-impact. I’d like to think these would lessen the personal blow of a side-impact, then help hold everything together through what comes next. These bars also allow crossbars to tie the seats and belts to, so the cage is a true safety cage.
My view is, if building a cage, build it to cover as many bases as possible without getting too redundant or cumbersome. I wouldn’t say we’re building them for different situations, since we’re all driving them on the street to the occasional trail, but we’re building them to different comfort or confidence levels.
My background is in racing these things off-road, and I’ve seen/been in a ton of low and medium speed rollovers. I’ve had the opportunity to see what gives first when something fails, what breaks, what bends, and where the vulnerable spots are. The best I can do is try to minimize my own (family’s) risk, post my ideas, and people can take them into consideration if they want.
I think the OP's design of tying the front hoop to the dashboard would help a lot with this.
Separate names with a comma.