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Restoring Steering And Axle Swaps.

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by TerdFurgeson, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Jan 23, 2019
    TerdFurgeson

    TerdFurgeson New Member

    San Antone
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
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    17
    one of the items on my to do list is to rework the steering that PO put in on my 71. Apparently they wanted a Chevy tilt steering, but opted to torch cut the shaft about 4” above my Ross box and jack the new stuff in. It’s sloppy at best.

    Is my best bet to get it close to original easily going to be to use a DJ column? Or are there other methods that are less costly?

    Quote I got a while back would be close to 400 for the DJ column plus shipping.

    Not trying to do a saggy swap at this time and don’t care if the column has tilt or not.

    Second item... I snagged a drum Dana 30 and 44 recently from a commando. The 44 is centered, but I also picked up a Dana 20 TC. Am I correct in thinking that if I swap from my D18 to the D20 that I can use the centered 44 axle without too much additional effort? (It’s been rebuilt and my offset has not) other option would by rebuild the D18 and move the 11” brakes from the centered to the offset axle.

    Any thoughts welcomed, wanting to get something drivable before too long, but tough to find work time with a 6 week old girl at home.
     
  2. Jan 23, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Your best bet is to source a Ross steering box & column, the column is one piece with the worm gear in the box. A wanted ad in the classifieds here will probably turn up a few replies, lots of people have them kicking around after doing a saginaw conversion. Plan on a rebuild of the box before use as well as probable issues with the other steering components, do a search here on "death wobble".
     
    Jrobz23 likes this.
  3. Jan 23, 2019
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    Oct 3, 2016
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    Ross' are pretty easy to find. I'm with Howard. Replace the whole shebang. I got one, but it's not worth the shipping to you. Try and find one locally with little play, or rebuild one.

    As for the D30 and D44 swap, what gearing do you have in em? What motor do you have in the Jeep? The 70s gearing mixed with the FHead is likely going to leave you greatly wanting and your clutch warn out quicker than normal. A Dauntless will definitely handle a broader range of gearing much better.

    As per the tcases, it seems they are not always as easily swappable as one would hope/assume. There is a huge wealth of knowledge here on the combinations and which work, which do not, and most importantly - why. I'll leave that for those guys. Definitely let us know your engine, trans, tcase combination, cuz IIRC that will matter.
     
  4. Jan 23, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Jul 18, 2013
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    another supporter of this idea...don't know if your 71 is a v6 or F4, but I think the steering boxes are slightly different in size. I think the v6 box was a bit bigger (and better?) and I would look for one of those boxes even if you currently have the 4 cyl.
     
    Rick Whitson likes this.
  5. Jan 23, 2019
    windyhill

    windyhill Sponsor

    PA
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    1,502
    Get any column out of an early cj, cut the bottom off, and add a bushing and floor plate. Then do the saggy conversion. It will be an improvement and might even be cheaper then finding the correct hard to find v6 ross box.
     
    47v6 and Rich M. like this.
  6. Jan 23, 2019
    TerdFurgeson

    TerdFurgeson New Member

    San Antone
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
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    V6, T14, D18 currently.

    Axles I snagged we’re from a 73 commando. Both the front and rear have new 11” brakes with the rear having integrated e-brakes. The D20 I was told was from a commando with an auto transmission. New axles are 3.73 i believe. Pretty sure that’s what is currently in my Jeep now too.

    Was able to spend a few minutes with the D20 today cleaning gunk off the outside and can get it to shift like it should and seems to engage the gears correctly.

    Guess I’ll be in the lookout for a steering column soon and get it back to something closer than it is. Not too worried on that part, just hate the way the Chevy steering wheel was done and want something at least closer to original.
     
  7. Jan 24, 2019
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    Welcome from Michigan. Boy you got a lot of options there, I am going keep my eye of this thread to see how it works out for you. Like they said, the V 6 has a bigger Ross steering box, I don't know about a DJ box. I had a 60 DJ it had the smaller Ross Box with column shift. I used a 66 V 6 frame when I rebuilt my 64, I already had a NOS 134F head motor so I made an 134 frame out of the V6 frame and used the V 6 3:73 axels with 10" brakes. It works out good for me for what I do with my Jeep, mostly Forest viewing and touring on two lane blacktop roads of Northern Lower Michigan. The people on this site know everything about Willy's so you are in the right place. Good Luck
     
  8. Jan 24, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    The easiest thing to do is get the ross V6/M38a1 box... Finding one in great condition will not be easy. I went power saginaw with a speedway nostalgia column and an original steering wheel to make it look the part. If you're going to go D30, why waste your time with a ross box?

    The most noticeable upgrades that really make you WANT to drive an early jeep is upgraded steering and brakes. Everything else is secondary to those two items. I have power brakes and power steering in my 2A and those things have made my jeep modern enough to drive in city traffic just about every day I can.

    Good luck
     
  9. Jan 24, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  10. Jan 24, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
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    If u are going to use, play, with your cj, you'll be much happier with a Saginaw conversion!
     
  11. Jan 24, 2019
    Sierra Bum

    Sierra Bum Member

    The High Sierra
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    Oct 23, 2017
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    --Saginaw [power] Steering is awesome.

    --As for the axles. If your existing rear axle is a flanged, offset 44, that is a very desired axle (70-71 Cj5). And a major benefit in keeping your dana 18 case. The large-hole 18 case will also have the more desirable 2.46:1 (up-gradable to terra-low 3.15:1) low range ratio in it, AND it will take an overdrive unit.

    The centered axle may or may not have flanged axles as well. Again, flanged being the stronger, more desirable version to the two piece, tapered axle. The Jeep Dana 20 will have a 2:1 low range ratio stock (upgrade-able to terra-low 3.15:1) AND/BUT it will NOT take an over drive unit.

    Lower gears and the ability to spit the gears with an OD, and then have OD beyond 1:1 in 3rd or 4th gear is hugely beneficial for me in a classic CJ.

    The dana 30 is the way to go for the front. Although I'm not sure that the commando dana 30 is a direct bolt in. And obviously you gotta make sure the r&p matches the rear, whatever you do.
     
  12. Jan 26, 2019
    TerdFurgeson

    TerdFurgeson New Member

    San Antone
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    My main purpose for this jeep will be to run occasional errands in town and use as a ranch vehicle, so not trying to make it a crawler nor planning on much highway use. That said, certainly need to be sure I don’t do something too dumb and make it dangerous.

    Current (offset) rear and new (centered) D44 both are flanged. The centered axle has been gone through but the offset has not. My thought was to get the D20 TC fixed and put it in, then the centered axle, and afterwards let the offset go to help pay for the other stuff.

    I suppose I’ll tackle the steering column and box issue once I get there. I don’t get the time I want to work on this with a 6 week old in the house. Fingers crossed I get it done well before needing to teach her to drive it though!

    Thanks all.. will update as I’m able to
     
  13. Jan 26, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    JMO - Jeeps have more than double the number of major moving components from a passenger car, and unless owned by an enthusiast, used examples typically were neglected and need a lot of major maintenance. You'd get a few hundred bucks for your offset rear axle, but you're going to have a lot to do without swapping these axles.

    First I would fix the steering. If you are just going to putt around, and not go with big tires, the Ross steering will be fine. Power Saginaw is a great upgrade, but its main advantage comes with the large tires we all like to run. The Ross steering is less durable and less accurate than Saginaw, manual or power, but it should be fine under the stated conditions.

    Next, the most advantage would be taking the 11" drums from the axles and running the 11" brakes, IMO. A '71 with either engine should have the 10" Wagner (?) brakes, which are ok, but ... with 11" Bendix brakes available, I would not spend a dime on the original brakes. The 11s just bolt on, the parts are way way cheaper and more available, and the improved braking will make driving easier and safer.

    Regarding the axles separate from the 11" brakes, I see no advantage in swapping the rear axle. Indeed, it could be come a big liability. Better to rebuild the 18 and keep your rear axle. The main advantage of the 18 is its better low range, and an advantage on the trail of having the front and rear pumpkins line up so you can more easily straddle obstructions. Driveshaft angle is also better with the 18. Rebuilding a transfer case should be an easy and satisfying bench job, and there is plenty of advice available here, if needed. By 1971, the 18 was more than 3 decades in production, and I expect there were economic reasons for Jeep going to the widely-used 20. An 18 also leaks more than a 20, wears out faster, and makes more noise (whine). Likely your 18 needs rebuilding.

    The front axle is more of a judgement call. Seems like the front knuckles on these CJs always need repair. However, it's something you can do without making major changes to the Jeep. Personally I would fix up the 27 and sell the later axles without the brakes if I needed to offset the cost of the build. The 30 will give you a tighter turning radius, and be more durable in the long run, but the 30s have been around for a loooong time, and there's no guarantee that the axle you have is ready for service without some new parts.

    My advice would be to stage your improvements so that you have a complete running and driving Jeep as soon as, and as much as possible. The 100% box stock CJ-5 is a great vehicle for what you describe. It will go some amazing places and tackle seemingly impassable obstacles easily and without complaint.
     
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  14. Jan 26, 2019
    Bowbender

    Bowbender I'm workin' on it!

    Northern Minn.
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    You just got some great advice, I would urge you to consider what was given. Wish you all the best on your project.
     
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