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Replacing shaft clutch and brake levers attach to?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by schardein, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Jul 29, 2004
    schardein

    schardein Low Range Therapy

    Success, MO
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    553
    My pedals have a little side to side movement, and after eyeballing everything, it is looking like the shaft that the clutch pedal attaches to and that the brake pedal pivots on is worn. I was looking at some omix ada parts lists and it looks like this shaft is available.

    Has anyone ever done this replacement?

    If so, does replacing the shaft make a difference?

    Do the pedal arms or the frame mount for the shaft usually show any significant wear, of just the shaft?

    Is a replacement frame mount available?

    Please report on any experiences...
     
  2. Jul 29, 2004
    Bob

    Bob Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    436
    I replaced the shaft, frame mount, and brake pedal arm about a year ago. Cured the side-to-side slop in the pedals. Toughest part was knocking the old rivets out that hold the frame mount. It's all available; I got the pedal arm and shaft through Krage and the frame mount through Walck's. Replacing just the shaft usually helps somewhat, but you'll probably still have some side-to-side movement due to the slop still in the frame mount and brake pedal arm. I'd say replace it all at once while you're in there.
     
  3. Jul 30, 2004
    gte636p

    gte636p Member

    smyrna, Ga
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    492
    i remember reading about an aftermarket part back when the cj's were new to stiffen up the pedals themselves. evidently the side to side motion was an issue when these jeeps were relatively new. unfortunately, i don't know the part numbers.... and i didn't pay enough attention to what was going on when the diagrams were posted. someone else will most likely show up and describe what was actually done..
     
  4. Jul 30, 2004
    schardein

    schardein Low Range Therapy

    Success, MO
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
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    553
    Thanks guys... Chris, now that you mention that, I will have to go thru some old four wheeler mags I have. I got a set of nearly 30 Four Wheeler magazines from the late 60's and early 70's off ebay awhile back....lots and lots of early jeep pics and early advertisements for people like Warn, Mickey Thompson, Conferr, Novak, etc.
     
  5. Jul 30, 2004
    jon

    jon New Member

    Holderness N.H.
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    19
    Ive taken apart alot of jeeps that have a long bolt through the middle of the pedal shaft,and some different sized washers on the ends. It was set up to put pressure on the sides of the pedal where it goes around the shaft. it seems to take up most of the slop. Just dont tighten it too much or the brake will move when you clutch. \

    I like to use a M38 pedal bracket on the frame. It is much stronger tha the stock civillian bracket. it even has nice bronze bushings in it.
     
  6. Jul 30, 2004
    davet

    davet Member

    Andover, MN
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    164
    I have lots of wobble in my pedals also but I don't mind because it keeps them from hanging up on the body when the frame gets twisted on the trail.
     
  7. Jul 30, 2004
    willysnut

    willysnut Banned

    Newnan, Ga.
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    654
    slop

    The clutch pedal bolts to the cross shaft solidly and the frame bushing (clutch pedal play) for the cross shaft is the culprit, the brake pedal slips on to this same cross shaft (brake pedal play). I would say replace the brake pedal if it bothers you, the cross shaft is a little harder to get rid of the play. I agree that you want some side slop to help out when the frame is twisted during wheelin'.
    To answer your question; my brake pedal was worn- causing the slop, the cross shaft had very little wear. Mine was worn to the point that it squeaked like someone's fingers (pedal rubbing on the body cutout)on a chalkboard when you applied the brakes, but it still worked.
     
  8. Jul 30, 2004
    kamel

    kamel Senior Curmudgeon

    Erlanger, Kentucky
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    891
    The long bolts through the shaft were a Jeep recommended fix for side to siide wobble.

    Jeep did not put buhsings in the frame mount for the pedal shaft, so when it wore you were out of luck.

    However, the government was smarter in this case. The M38A1 has the same pedal setup and the military version on the M38A1 had bushings.

    So, you could pop off (what a pain!!) the frame mount and put in an Army Surplus NOS frame mount. It has an extra hole in the side so you'd have to drill a hole in the side of the frame.

    Well, I suppose you could ignore the hole and just use the existing holes - your choice.

    All the military jeep vendors have those NOS brackets.

    kamel
     
  9. Jul 30, 2004
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,437
    If you decide to replace the setup with new stuff... the CJ cross shaft and bracket are available new. The brake pedal is available (new) in the 4 -cylinder version only. Some places will tell you the 4-cyl brake pedal is the same as the V6 pedal, that you just need to drill one hole. WRONG!
    The 4-cyl pedal can be made to work with some fab effort. If you have a V6 pedal, it's best to get it re-bushed to fit the new cross shaft.
     
  10. Jul 30, 2004
    schardein

    schardein Low Range Therapy

    Success, MO
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    553
    Thanks for the great information guys. As luck would have it there is a M38A1 at the local junkyard. It is really picked over but I am 99% positve it still has the frame bracket on it. Hopefully it is still there, they crush pretty regularly there.

    Anyone know, is it riveted on a m38a1 like the civvy? That'll suck, this place has high prices made worse if you need their help to pull a part.

    Since it is pretty old and likely as worn as mine(?) are replacement bushings available easily? If not I may be better off just buying a new civvy repro mount. Opinions?

    I 100% agree with some slop helping offroad. My floorboard holes are a little wallered out, which helps.

    Guess the bottom line is gonna be pull it apart for close examination. For smaller projects like this I like to have the parts on hand so as to avoid down time and doing work twice.

    Lynn, do you know if the bushings for the v6 shaft are available?

    Thanks again for all the help, just when you think you know Jeeps pretty good you learn something new (the m38a1 mount being different, v6 pedal different, etc)
     
  11. Jul 30, 2004
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    3,437
    One of our fellow board members and top-notch machinist, Mcruff, re-bushed my V6 pedal for me for a nominal charge. I don't know if he's looking to do any more.
    A local machine shop should be able to do it for you. You'll need to give them the OD of the new shaft, or take it in with you.
     
  12. Jul 30, 2004
    James P. Enderwies

    James P. Enderwies Sponsor

    Lake Havasu City, AZ
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    747
    schardein: Another alternative that I used. Mine was sort of sloppy but not bad. So I lubed it with Mobil 1 Syn Grease. Worked fine for about 2 days--then sloppy again.

    So I used the grease that I used in my Steam Loco side rods--Griot's Garage Super High Impact Grease. This stuff is like sticky bubble gum. It Will Not pound out. Now I use it in a separate gun for u-joints, slip joints and the cross shaft. Lasts about a month before it gets sloppy again. I can live with that. :D

    Here's a link: http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=45104
     
  13. Jul 30, 2004
    Bob

    Bob Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    436
    The pedal arm I got matched the old one perfectly. Although, I do have the single reservoir master cylinder like the F-heads since it's a '66.
     
  14. Aug 1, 2004
    schardein

    schardein Low Range Therapy

    Success, MO
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
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    553
    Mine is titled as a 67, according to the vin it was built in Nov 66. I also have the single reservoir MC. So maybe my pedal arm will be the same as a F4?
     
  15. Aug 2, 2004
    JZ

    JZ Member

    Huntsville...
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    140
    The used shaft on my '59 was sloppy, so I bought a replacement from Krage (Omix). This "new" shaft is only slightly less sloppy that the original one. I really have not inspected closely enough to convince myself to replace the frame mount. The very thought of rivets gives me the willys
     
  16. Aug 3, 2004
    66cj5

    66cj5 Jeep with no name

    NorthWest Indiana
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,084
    fixed the slop in mine w/washer on ether side of the brake pedal. also there is a shear key on the shaft to hold the pedal in place on the clutch side.
     
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