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Rebuild for "miles"

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by jwjeep60, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. Nov 24, 2009
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    561
    if you attended the last Midwest Willy's reunion at Springfield,or mason then you likely saw that kid in the overloaded cj5 on his way home from Missouri to upstate new York and if you have not... you missed a story there... that kid was myself and the jeep now has a snowplow and trailer to tow (as seen in Jefferson city)
    Anyway the miles are adding up and the wear is taking its toll; not enough power to use overdrive on a flat highway, uneven compression readings exhaust smoke at higher revs, crankcase venting to oil-bath, pcv is overwhelmed, and the general feeling of... tired
    soo before i tear into a rebuild fall 2010 (taking engine theory for school) i decided to start this thread to allow suggestions, recommendations, and disapprovals in the process of building a strong reliable daily driver that can handle the stresses of 1000+ mi road trips w/trailer at interstate speeds, winter snowplowing, and the simple trip to the store as it is the only car to my name.
    as of now the build will be on a college budget (debt) so an engine swap is not likely unless you can prove the rebuild of that engine and the changes to everything stock under hood will still cost less than a rebuild... not likely.
    all accessories to the f-head have been rebuilt/ replaced except the hi-lo pump :) basically i have never unthreaded a head bolt or oil-pan bolt

    i have access to school lifts and welders but for only two hours twice a week and we have a dyno at school soo, I'll have a before and after slip or my... you can paint "miles" pink if i don't have before and after dyno slips...

    soo long disclaimer stated what are the best things to do during a f-head rebuild?
    my current ideas include: 1. larger baffled oil pan with cross-tubes to keep the oil cool and happy and the cross-tubes can be plugged off-road and winter 2. full flow oil filter and cooler, i know, i know; bypass is the way to go but not for me. 3. exhaust headers (homemade) 4. I'm thinking of running stronger springs w/ dampeners. the jeep gets lots and lots of high revs so i worry of striking an intake valve but extra pressure on the valve train ain't good 5. has anyone attempted a hydraulic cam follower conversion? 6. assuming new pistons are required are there any available cam ground, non t-slot, yet not completely custom? and is there any way to lighten the con-rods? 7. angle (wedge) mill the head to raise compression and keep exhaust-head clearance 8. bore oil galleys to keep oil pressure even and run a larger line to the head (i took machining so i can do the machining myself at school :) 9. just in case i noticed ford 302 camshaft bearings can be retrofitted if my cam shaft bearings are worn.
    i know it is a lot of stuff but with some donated experience i hope to have something to plow mild snow and take some heavy highway miles.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  2. Nov 24, 2009
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    561
    honestly if y'all don't mind,
    is an engine swap worth it... what engines have the best characteristics?
    i wonder if i will be disappointed once the rebuild is complete because i wonder if I'm out growing the 4cyl... see in high school i didn't care that it topped out at 55 it would plow the snow and get me to school and home. there have been several times i took the jeep when the weather was bad because it had the low end lugging that would keep it from slipping on snow and ice, but now I'm not driving ten miles at 55 with a toolkit and backpack.
    I've realized that the expectations i have for the jeep have increased over the past few years.mehh i realize that i now expect the jeep to purr at 65 in overdrive... is it simply too much to expect from this engine or will a rebuild with a focus on reliability and a small increase in compression bring the little hurricane back to life and purr at 65 on highway and 55 with the trailer in tow:?

    some aspects of an engine swap are promising such as knowing that I'll be able to pull the hills and knowing that i can plan a trip without checking the oil and filling the gas every 100 miles. but i have vac wipers, the hi lo pump, Ross steering, plow bracketing, factory heat, stock radiator and the t90 to work with and I've worked on this engine soo many times and i have soo many spare parts for the hurricane that it feels like abandonment to swap motors.... :(

    currently my thought is that I'll get it on the Dyno as is and if it is below 50hp it will be rebuilt, above that i'll 1.lower my standards 2.engine swap or 3.get a 2nd jeep and drop a 454 in err and tow everything else R)
     
  3. Nov 24, 2009
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member Sponsor

    K-Town Tenn.
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,294
    you've packed alot of questions in a couple posts........having had a f-head w/ overdrive I think your asking a lot to think it'll pull 65mph on a regular basis. I could hit 65 if the wind was at my back and I was going slightly downhill R)
    If you search these forums you'll get an idea of what different setups are capable of.........V6 sounds more like what your asking for. Is it easier to swap or buy already setup?, well you have to make that choice.....I've spent close to 3 years building my cj6 TWICE!......and a gob full of money :rofl:
    Best advise I can give you is decide what you want the finished Jeep to be....then draw out a plan of action
    good luck, Jim S.
     
  4. Nov 28, 2009
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    561
    soo I'm asking too much. i can't get a 2nd truck or jeep, so that would leave a engine swap :(
    now if i change my baselines to 70mph and 60mph w/1500lb trailer and keeping my T90 , that leaves possibility's to... and please tell me if anyone feels differently.

    other engine options i know of:
    Chevy 4cyl, simplest swap, carb.. i like carbs :) , trailer towing would be questionable, not much gain.
    ford 2.3 (turbo), lots of rpms to work with, but i would always be in boost with the trailer and i don't know how the turbo will affect snowplow-ability
    dauntless v6, carb, classy swap to stay vintage and enjoy the daily drives, proven in jeeps.
    Chevy 4.3, light truck engine, some (few) have carbs! should tow and plow without a fuss, lots of performance parts, makes a good engine for a s-10
    ford v6...? the only experience i have is w/ the half dozen mom finished in Tauruses, and i don't care to work with...
    most v8s would kill the t90 but i'll listen anyway.

    the best experience i've had is with a 1994 4.3L s-10 and a carborated (1985?) 4.3L would look sweat... but is this too much for a t90 if used with a plow?
     
  5. Nov 28, 2009
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Active Member

    Vestal NY
    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,436
    if it was me id first determine if the engine is shot. Compression, leak down, dyno. If its totally shot thats good news because itll men you can get alot more power out of the f-head and obviously rebuilding it would be the easiest and cheapest way about it. Plus you get the satisfaction that your keeping it original for another 50 years possibly. I considered a swap in my 2a when it died. I was your age. Im glad i kept it original it works great the way it was intended. And it certainly sounds like you know your way around it. I applaud your bravery for driving the tired old jeep cross country sounds like fun :)
     
  6. Dec 1, 2009
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    561
    thanks for the applause on the trips.
    well... how much is a lot?
    my motor is not horrible for a jeep just sketchy. the differences in compression between cylinders is a concern and the amount of crud under the side cover tells me its due for some freshing.
    the performance gains I've read are cam, carb, compression, headers and some talk of turbos. problem is that the only ones i can do are compression and turbo and a turbo would not require a new cam or carb and a turbo could get by with the stock manifold. i have heard of great success with the few turbo projects before but the question is how much prep does the bottom end of a hurricane need to survive? if i went this route the turbo components would cost less than the adapters needed to run a different motor and if i swap motors I'll likely need to rebuild the new engine and all the accessories anyway mehh
    considering how far i am on the f-head it makes sense to stick with it as long as i think of it as a 1/4ton jeep not a one ton truck.

    soo...
    new rings, seals, and bearings,
    reworked oil pan, full flow oil filter, oil cooler
    valve springs, valve guides, hydraulic followers..?
    vac advance
    turbo? (blow thru Mitsubishi tdo4 w/ inter-cooler & integral waste gate & electric boost pump for fuel, solid carb float... lots of tuning-nothing new):twisted: why do i read those turbo books!!

    and have something different to be proud of once i lower my expectations R)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  7. Oct 18, 2010
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    561
    time for a update,
    engine swap... i should.
    but the hurricane makes my jeep what it is.
    and i got an idea. :D
    i just need more motivation to finish this small project before i overhaul the hurricane.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    so hopefully i can get this together and rebuilt before too long.:hurrican:
     
    Valentino84 likes this.
  8. Oct 18, 2010
    SIDSCJ

    SIDSCJ Jeep addict

    New Haven, Vermont
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
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    1,067
    This outta be goodchainsawguy. What boost PSI do you intend to start at??
     
  9. Oct 18, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member Sponsor

    K-Town Tenn.
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,294
    :lurk:
    Jim
     
  10. Oct 18, 2010
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Well, that's not something I expected to see. If I was ever to pop the hood on one of these, I would surely never expect to see that. Interesting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  11. Oct 19, 2010
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    561
    I will likely start with boost around 4lbs so i can run an electric fuel pump as a boost pump, then see how upset it gets if all goes well I will dial it up. I've been looking into heavier springs in the mechanical fuel pump, but for starters I'll just put a 2nd pump on it.
     
  12. Oct 19, 2010
    1GPNSTYN

    1GPNSTYN New Member

    NW Florida
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Yes this will be very interesting.:coffee:
     
  13. Oct 20, 2010
    hudsonhawk

    hudsonhawk Sponsor Sponsor

    Dallas, TX
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,650
    Where are you goin to mount your air filter? Gotta be aware of that for stream crossings. Otherwise I am really curious to see how this turns out.
     
  14. Oct 20, 2010
    unclebill

    unclebill Banned

    a sun blasted...
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
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    2,358
    ive got a f134 that is a bit tired that i use as a daily driver.
    and i wouldnt take it on a 1000 mile trip on a bet.
    next year i will be swapping a 231 into it.
    i will end up with an $8000 jeep thats worth (maybe) $4-$5000
    it might be cheaper to sell the one you have and buy one that either
    1 came with a v 6
    2 somebody else already went broke on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  15. Oct 20, 2010
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member Sponsor

    Huntingdon PA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,449
    Bill is right, for all of the practical reasons.

    However, since you're this far into it, we really don't care how much you spend ;) , so Go for it!! R) We want to see how this turns out!! :D
     
  16. Oct 20, 2010
    unclebill

    unclebill Banned

    a sun blasted...
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    yeah
    dont listen to me
    that was just the booze talkin.
    go nuts!
    sell those textbooks and buy parts!
     
  17. Oct 25, 2010
    jwjeep60

    jwjeep60 in process

    Sedalia Mo.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    561
    I know some don't feel the same, but i personally would never part with my 1960 jeep cj5. so let it be. just grab some :lurk: and possibly some :beer:
    Most everything on this project is nabbed from the recycle bin at school when a friend decides to hot rod there 85 plymouth colt, :rofl:

    Exhaust plumbing, Done.
    Charge pipe, in progress. no intercooling...
    Inlet piping will likely be a tiny cone filter, no stream crossing here, too many bad stories of falling through the ice.
    Oil feed lines, almost done, some leaks to fix.
    Oil drain line, in progress.
    Coolant lines... plans are to splice the heater line between the pump and heater so it gets cooler fluid, but if i splice it between the head and heater the cab may be a bit warmer and the block will be cooler?
    Fuel, I'm going to leave my perfectly tuned and rebuilt carter out of this, plans include a Holley :D its already there in the pics.

    side projects:
    seats, black denim? the original vinyl is toast. and i have a blue denim rear seat I will stain too match.
    rear bed, was a road sign, road signs are heavy. heavy was bad, heavy is gone.
    11" brakes, back burner, still on there axles, can i make a simple adapter to put an amc 11" plate on a Dana 44 that will provide the needed offset and bolt pattern? otherwise i have the drums i need and the front plates.
    On board Air, got two York pumps, gotta decide on the better candidate.
    Better Trailer, this will be down here on the list, thinking a small dump/ flatbed/ teardrop, using Dana 30 spindles and 9" brakes unless i decide to ff the 44.
     
  18. Oct 25, 2010
    unclebill

    unclebill Banned

    a sun blasted...
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    go gettem tiger!
     
  19. Nov 5, 2010
    jswigal

    jswigal Member

    Columbus, Ohio
    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    This should be neat. Congrats on your decision to stick with the f-head. I had one with a vacuum advance distributor, and the slightly higher compression that I'm sure would have done 65 just fine if I had an overdrive. I never really risked running over 3,400 rpm, which put me at nearly 55 mph, with no problems going up hills or against the wind, and it felt like it would do more. I just never tried. That was all stock by the way, 5:38 gears, with 31" tires. If your turbo doesn't blow it up and you have an overdrive, you should be well on your way to freeway bliss.....well, when not stopping at every gas station that you pass to refill....good luck.
     
  20. Nov 5, 2010
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
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    1,159
    Do it, being different is one reason we all have and enjoy these beasts.
     

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