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Power Lock Center Pins And FF Conversion

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Norcal69, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. May 5, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yeah that's a good idea but something was not right to begin with if you need to do machine work on a new kit.

    Ideally the outer spline end should have 2 grooves per shaft and should accept common circlips.
    The outermost circlip would function exactly like the clips used on front axle shafts.
    That would only control inward end float of the shaft so the shaft cannot disengage from the drive flange splines.
    With your setup the inward axle shaft thrust pushes up against the end of the wheel spindle.
    The end of the wheel spindle was never intended as a thrust bearing point.

    The 2nd circlip would be located to thrust against the inside portion of the drive flange.
    That clip would would provide outward end float control and keep the shaft fully engaged with the differential side gears.

    I can't understand why the kit was not designed as I stated.
     
    cookieman likes this.
  2. May 6, 2017
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
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    Oh now I see. My axles are totally different. My snap ring grove is on the end of the axle.
     
  3. May 6, 2017
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
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    This is my WARN FF axle. I see it is very different .
    [​IMG]
     
  4. May 6, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    As long as we're sharing.

    I got what I believe to be a Herm kit off of Craigslist. This is a pic from the seller's ad before I bought it.
    [​IMG]

    Here's the end during installation. I went with locking hubs, so I don't have a picture of what they would look like with hub flanges.
    [​IMG]

    I did nothing inside the differential during installation...No issues.
     
  5. May 6, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    Found a couple more pics.

    Test fitting.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. May 7, 2017
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I took some measurements for you guys. Both sides are exactly the same and both axles fall short of full spline engagement.
    [​IMG]

    Overall spindle length

    [​IMG]

    Overall hub length

    [​IMG]

    With a warn locking hub installed you can see that I still don't get full spline engagement.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. May 7, 2017
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    Been following this thread with interest since I'd like to do this in the future. Looking at the pictures, Focker has the backing plate bolted to the outside of the flange and Norcals appears to be sandwiched between the axle and spindle. The difference in the axle depth would only be the thickness of the backing plate but it might make for full engagement.
     
  8. May 7, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    I don't think this is possible without ruining the backing plate. His looks like mine IMO.
     
  9. May 7, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I agree, I don't think it could be done and still work.
     
  10. May 7, 2017
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    The backing plate is bolted on over the outside of the spindle. You cannot install is any other way.
     
  11. May 7, 2017
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    I made the picture bigger and clearly see the backing plate on the outside as stated. I stand corrected.
     
  12. May 8, 2017
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    If my spindles and hubs measure correctly, then I believe that the axles from Herm are too short to get full spline engagement.
     
  13. May 8, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Norcal, I did not use calipers.
    I could perhaps do that if it becomes helpful.
    I just measured to the nearest 1/16" or so with a tape.
    The spindle I measured was 4-3/4" and I did not include the short length of the index ring.
    The spindle index ring would add to my 4-3/4".
    Looks like yours is reading about 4.840" so it seems fairly comparable concerning spindle length.
    To get an exact comparison you need to subtract the index bore ring width from spindle reading of 4.840"

    At 4.085" your hub is roughly .085 wider than mine was and that could account for some extra / unwanted axle width.
    Technically this also depends on the position of the bearing cup bores and I'm ill prepared to provide blueprint tolerances.

    My gut impression to-date suggests some of (perhaps all of) the excess unwanted assembled axle width results from those aftermarket hubs.

    Regardless I still believe using 2 common "C" clips to be a much better design.
     
  14. May 9, 2017
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I have some hubs laying around somewhere off of a 27 that I need to part out. I will measure the width of those hubs when I get a chance.
     
  15. May 9, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yeah but remember the actual width of the complete axle assembly really depends on the depth of inner bearing cup and distance to the outside of that hub.
     
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