paint prep

I've been working on my old Jeep trying to get the paint stripped and reprimed/painted since the thing is damn ugly and rusty as hell.

I finished grinding all the paint off of the front fender today (with a silicon carbon pad or something like that, it's ugly and black). So I hung the thing up and sprayed it with Jasco's Prime and Paint, a chemical that's supposed to prep bare meal and convert deep rust to black primer except the **** doesn't work. It left white streaks all over the fender and a slimy film. Yes I read the instructions and I didn't do anything wrong.

Does anyone have a chemical or brand that they reccommend for prepping bare metal before priming? Hopefully Lowe's will have something for me.
Thanks -Zac

 

Bare metal, self etching primer. Eastwood has it in rattle can or if you have a sprayer auto paint supply store (rattle can also!).

 

Hi.
I am not a professional body man or painter however, my opinions from projects Olds 442,Dodge warlock, and Ford thunderbird are:

first get the rust off preferebly with a wire wheel then put the sander away. Sanders cause heat and tendto warp sheet metal if you work them to hard to strip paint. I prefer a chemical strip like taz strip or aircraft strip or anything that contains Methal Ethal kerotine?? Anyway is labeled MEK.

The fumes are nasty,($20 respirator not a bad idea) Spray it on and let it sit for about 10 minutes. Then get a pair of goggles and good heavy rubber gloves and hit it with a wire wheel. The paint will bubble up and fall of the car. You will have bare metal. Once the rough stuff is gone then give it a gentle sanding. I usually work small 3-4 foot sections at a time.

I have tried "RESTORE" and some of those rust blockers. at best you get what you described. I tend to get a clean clear finish for a few days, then the hard black they describe for about two weeks, then anything that was slightly rusted seems to fall off in big black chunks leaving holes in your body. I avoid it.

I agree with the guys above. A good primer is next. Some rattle cans are not badat all some are actually really bad. The key is to make sure it will not trap water in pores on the finish, and that it is going to bond with both the bare metal and the brand of paint you plan to use.
Personally I used starlight sl-50 epoxy primer on my current thunderbird. I love that stuff. Its a little expensive, and its a two part mix but it goes on so so smooth. It covers all the little scratches and problems in one or two coats and can easily fool people into thinking it is actual paint.

I put a single coat of that primer on my bird last fall and it still looks great. As soon as its warmer and I have money I will clean it, give it a light sanding and one more coat of primer before shooting the paint.

It may be sort of overkill for an off road jeep, but the process has worked well for me so far on more fancy projects. And they were all done in a home garrage and on a budget. by budget I mean as little money as humanly possible.

 

You have got some great advice from the above post.

For jeeps and some of the old antique tractors I have painted, I have had great luck with the wal mart primer in a spray can. It is cheap and does a good job. And the automotive grade paint “Omni” I have mixed to paint the jeep holds well to it. The paint job (paint and primer) cost about $100.00 - $150.00

My procedure is relatively simple and fast. I use a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with a soft wire cup. (not the braded wire cup, as it will dig into the metal) I do sections at a time. One night I work on about a 1/4 of a jeep: such as doing a quarter panel, hood or front fender. Take it down to bright shinny metal beat out the dents and fill in any small dents with bondo, or weld in a patch of metal that needs replacing. Then spray it with the primer. I have found in about 4 or 5 work sessions, that are about 3 hours long, I can have jeep primed, sanded and ready to paint. And that is working by myself.

 

Here's a lengthy series of postings by a professional body man re prepping and painting. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000051

Lots of good tips here. Anybody that's done this for a while develops their preferred methods and materials. If you want to follow a formula, I'd expect the above post contains a good one.

 

I would not recommend using MEK for anything. The fumes are very bad to breathe, it is very flammable. I have seen it used mostly in paint removal products.

I tried it once on the front door of a house I own. It was a comedy of errors including flames and a garden hose. fortunately the door was on saw horses at the time, and not installed....

Permatex makes a product called rust reformer or something like that. It works, I've used it before. It takes a while to dry, so don't be in a hurry.

Spray it on, and then go to the library, get a couple of tacos, and watch Seinfeld, and have a glass of red wine.

The next day you'll find a nice black finish on all but the worst rust, which may need another treatment.

kamel

 

For what it is worth we used to use MEK in Army aviation maintenace. Huge, big no no now. Highly flammable and must use protective equipment. Please be careful if it is used. However, I will say that it works well for degreasing, paint removing, etc.

 

I've used the aircraft paint remover that I bought in a spray can from auto zone. I think it is MEK. I was taking some paint of a jeep one time and my personal car was parked down wind and got some spray drift on the hood. The paint came off of each spot where it had landed on the hood. That stuff works even on non target areas just from the drift. Please be ultra careful with yourself and anything you value when using it. It is very powerful. And if you get any on your skin, it will burn to high heavens. If someone inhaled some, he may have just bought the farm.

 

Well, I hosed the fender off to get as much of the slime off as possible. Then I re-applied the Jasco stuff but instead of spraying it on I rubbed it on with a cotton rag. It worked alright, well enough I guess.

What I'm doing is far from a restoration. All I intended to do with this Jeep is kill all the cancer and get it driveable. I gave the fender three coats of Krylon primer I got in a rattle can from Wal-Mart. After that the outside will get an OD green (yup, going for the army jeep look, maybe even an ammo box turned sub box )rattle can job and the engine bay will be satin black. I'm hoping this paintjob will be durable enough for a daily driver but since I have no real knowledge about this it'll just have to do since I'm poor, lol.

One more thing. How do I clean all the nasty crap off of a 35 year old engine to repaint it? Pressure washer and...

Thanks.
-Zac

pics of the jeep as I recieved it about a month ago can be seen here
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/652646

 

I also used PPG's "Omni" line of paint on my tub with excellent results. I paid right around $200 for paint, clear, reducer, and hardener. However I must not have gotten all the rust up because a few places are beginning to bubble slightly.

As for the MEK debate that is what I used to wipe down my tub before I applied herculiner. Even outdoors with a steady breeze the fumes were overwhelming and required me to step away every few seconds.

 

i noticed lots of saftey warnings for MEK. Since I mentioned it above somewhere, by all means the warnings are correct. Its a NASTY chemical be carefull with it. Wear goggles, gloves(good waterproof chemical resistant ones) and a respirator(at least the $20 ones from most auto stores with the little canisters.they really do work well untill they break apart from age). And yes it is flamable and burns real hot with an almost colorless flame.

That said gasoline is highly explosive yet we use it every day because it works well and can be handled reasonably safely.

MEK is a common chemical in most types of industrial and automotive paints including the cheap rattle cans. It changes the way the chemicals bond to each other. Thats why there are warnings on any non latex paint. It is also why it removes paint, grease, ect very very easily. It works very well, basically put it on paint, and you will be able to wash 30 years of paint off your car to bare metal with a garden hose.
It has no effect on bare metal(well common ones anyway), but It will destroy latex, many abs plastics, some types of rubber and is certainly not good for the human body.

That being said I would not be afraid of it, it does its job very well. Just read the label and be carefull with it. Use it only for its intended purpose in a clean well vented area and you will be fine.

Also I forgot to mention it but someone else may have..If you use it to remove the paint, it usually evaporates completely, but its not a bad idea to clean the surface again with mineral spirits on a rag about 5 minutes before shooting the primer just in case there is any film left over.

 

Oh besides the MEK debate someone asked about how to clean the motor for painting. Was going to reply to that first but got side tracked.

MEK not so good in the engine, its not friendly to rubber or plastic. I use either diesel fuel or kerosine both good degreasers, and cheap, but not always the safest. If you are going to do dumb things just be smart about going about them

anyway before we start another saftey debate ..simple green, purple power , gunk engine de-greaser, and most of the citrus chemicals work fairly well with less saftey risks.

Oh and here is one the saftey commitee will approve of. Cool aid. Believe it or not a strong mix of cool aid in water will cut grease grime and sometimes paint. Also works well for corosion on battery terminals and carborator body's. I think my grandmother or someone told me its a good silver cleaner as well. My preference is grape, but I don't think the flavor will matter to your engine parts.

 

Zac
The pressure washer with some grease cleaner in a spray can purchased from the auto parts store should do the trick. Also a cheaper option is if you have one of those general dollar stores around, you can get "oven cleaner" real cheap. $1.00 per can. Get about 5. It will also work on any paint you have on the motor.

Start your motor and get it warm. Then turn it off and spray allot of the cleaner on it. LEt it stay on for about 10 minutes and then hose it off with the pressure washer. Repeat this about 3 or 4 times and you should have a clean motor. Your jeep probably will not start due to everything being wet. Might have to pull your distributor cap off and dry it out.

If you have a quarter car wash nearby it might be a little better than trying to get the gunk off of your driveway after your finished. And a good time to clean a motor without being rushed from the other customers at the car wash is real late at night or on a rainy day.

 

I've tried the rust convertors (Naval Jelly) and they work ok. Naval Jelly leaves a white residue until you rinse it off, and requires a good top coat. I prefer the moisture cured urethanes though (MCUs) like Eastwood's "Rust Encapsulator". Lots of different brands on the market - POR-15, Rust Bullet, etc. If you are going to make a rattle-can top coat, MCU would seal up the rust and stop its progress. Good thing about MCUs is you don't have to prepare the surface to bare metal. Remove the flaking rust and coat over what's left.

MCUs are also a lot tougher than typical rattle can paints (which are usually soft even when fully cured). If you scratch the top coat, you can touch it up without a lot of additional prep.

The oven cleaner and quarter car wash advice sounds good. There may be some danger from runoff if you use oven cleaner in your driveway. Wear safety glasses at the car wash.

<edit> If you preheat your engine, keep the cold spray away from the exhaust manifolds. I have broken exhaust manifolds this way.

 

Well, my Jeep doesn't run at the moment so I won't have t worry about that. Right now the motor and tranny are just sitting on the frame. Hopefully I'll get them pulled soon so I can start stripping the frame as well. After that, it ill get a nice coat of bedliner to protect it.

If I'm lucky the Jeep will be done by end of summer and I'll be near my goal of a total $500 invested. It'll be my daily driver slash beater while I fix up my 300zx.

 

Im a body man and ur first problem is the silicon... silicon causes "fish eyes" and thats what you are seeing... you need to prep the panal with some Prep sol or Laquer thinner first and it should come out just fine...