ok .... i've got the old steering out. now wth do i do?

well. i finally got the po's attempt at a steering upgrade/deathwish out of my 69.

pics are included below. i will be getting the frame fixed in a few weeks when i have $ for it.

the column i am replacing the po's rickety one with is from an 87 cherokee laredo. it's tight and feels good. will i have to shorten it somehow or can i adapt it as is. (see pics).

the replacement box is a power unit from a 1980 wag. but it only has about 3.5 turns lock to lock. a little quick for the highway on 81 wheel base. so i may look further. would a box from an 99 wrangler work ok?

i also have the mounting plate from the 80 wag (see pics)

in otherwords... what would you all recommend as a plan of attack at this point.

thanks for any and all ideas.

po's custom dash.
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01891.JPG

the heater hole which was used for steering by the po. note the welded plates in the lower edge. the white stuff is silicon rubber caulking.
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01893.JPG
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01898.JPG


replacement column
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01897.JPG

new column through firewall
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01900.JPG

new column and steering shaft for temp fit.
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01903.JPG
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01904.JPG

saginaw mounting plate
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01907.JPG
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01908.JPG

"new" column temped in the current dash hole
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01910.JPG

the patch plate from the po
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zoe/cjimages/beginreps/DSC01911.JPG

 

Zed, that is definately different. You do realize that the factory steering column went thru the dash about 6" lower on the dash, basically at the botom of the dash and passed thru the floor basically right between the pedals about 3" higher on the floor.
This puts your steering shaft down running right beside your exhaust manifold basically.
I would not try to put the column thru the hole in the firewall that was originally intended for the heater core, this in my opinion is way to high and will no doubt make the u-joint at your steering box at much to steep of an angle. You need to find a couple of pictures on here showing how some of the other guys have fixed or adapted newer columns to there older Jeeps, that hole in your dash is much to high up and makes the assembly way to high on the firewll for my taste, and I'm not sure it will even work right without mounting your steering box something like it was before.

I know this wasn't much help but you need to look at some pictures to get some better ideas on what you want to do.

 

well........I agree with Mcruff on this.....its too high
the column will need to be clamped to the dash and also a new plate made for the fllor mount.
Care needs to be taken with the lower shaft. That shaft is made to collapse in accident; overheating or welding on it could cause the nylon rivets to melt
I think that the components you have are very workable; just need to be "tailor made" for proper fit and function. I think lower is better.
that's my opinion

 

I don't know much about this conversion - never done it. However, I'd guess the Wagoneer box is variable ratio and will be fine. What's the mounting bracket from? The cast bracket on the '72-75 CJ was replaced in '76 by the stamped and welded built-up bracket. I suspect this was because the cast brackets break. If it were mine, I wouldn't use that cast mounting plate.

 

Timgr said:

No its because stamped can be made cheap and doesn't have to be machined as a secondary operation, the stamped can be made out of cheap sheet material and finished all by automatic operations where the cast unit is machined and then drilled and tapped, which will require handling and sorting. The box you are mounting on there is cast, the cast mount is actually stronger than the cheap flimsy factory fabbed unit by quite abit.

 

You still have to modify the frame with mounting brackets to attach the mounting plate. Why not just make the frame brackets fit the box and be done. Skip the cast mounting plate, it is a waste of effort.

JB

 

I myself would make the bracket from 1/2" plate stock and build frame enclosures out of 3/16" and just weld it all on, onec you have figured out where you can mount the steering box the column will then fall into place. This picture is of the mount with Vanguards manual saginaw.

This will give you an idea of where the box is suppose to go, this is the mount I made, there is also a frame enclosure that goes behind.

 

Thanks for all the quick answers. you people are an amazing amount of help!
i can see the what's left of the indent on the bottom of the dash where the original column went. there is a thin plate above the pedals right now that is lightly spot welded in by the po. if i mount the column base there i will need to make sure the connecting shaft clears the exhaust. and it need to go through or below the front member (i think?).

i agree that the current position is too high. but i thought i would show how it would be if i followed the previous "conversion" just in case i was thinking wrong.

this is going to take some thought. wish i could weld.

i wonder if it would be cheaper to find a replacement dash or attach diamond plate.

thanks also for the comment about the 1980 wag saginaw's variable ratio. the plate came from a 95 wrangler but was no cost so i will probably follow you all's advice and just make a plate adapter like the ones on this site.

i might as well fill the heater hole in with the heater that the po included right? all the parts are there. i just have to clean em and get some rust off.

 

Since you have the rear facing manifold on the drivers side of the engine the steering shaft should clear it fine, the top of the motor mount usually has to be notched about 1/2"-3/4" deep you can cut it deeper and weld in a 1/2 round piece of tubing to strengthen it back up if you don't like the cut or it looks weak.

 

these are all great! thanks!

 

is he done with the kit? ( sorry about the attempt to hijack)

if so there is a reason hjs phone number is on my speed dial on my cell ( dont ask)

 

To give you an idea of what can be done, here is a pic of my lower steering shaft going thru the frame motor mount
although this is on my 2A, it would be the same frame mount on a 5.
The groove/notch was cut out, then a piece of tubing (halved) welded in the groove for strength.
The plate across the top is held in with 4 bolts; this strengthens the top and can be removed if the steering shaft ever needs to come out. The shaft has never hit/rubbed the mount to my knowledge; it really can't go anywhere.
I think the gear box mounting is the most critical challenge, as you have to have a shaft that can clear the grille and the front crossmember. Once that has been achieved, then you can start on the design/length/construction of the lower shaft.
The column is going to be pretty much in a fixed spot that has been predetermined from the factory.
You can cut/weld/lenghten/shorten the upper shaft as well to suit your needs.
If done properly, you should only need the one u-joint where the upper and lower shafts connect, and the flex coupler at the box stub shaft.

 

got an email fro the man today, look for the kit/prices THIS WEEK
www.hermtheoverdriveguy.com

 

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES this is a great day first my grades ( see sundays thread) and now this I LOVE MY LIFE.

 

jp. when i looked from the grill end back through to the fire wall i think it might indeed be a pretty straight shot if i go through the motor mount. that is if i mount the column back in the original spot. i think i can go under the exhaust mani and through the mount.

do you have any pics of the shaft under the hood from the bottom of the column (at firewall to the spud shaft?

curious as to where you mounted the middle support bushing or if you needed one.

of course if herm's reverse mount works and is not too much $$ then i might have to decide whether to use the IH manual saginaw a friend gave me.

i think i'll practice welding if i can borrow a co-workers welder.

 

i just visited herm's site and if i am not mistaken the reverse kit is $175!

http://www.hermtheoverdriveguy.com/id83.htm

 

Zed: You shouldn't need a center bearing unless you are using a constant velocity (double) U joint or more than 2.

On mine, I have a Flaming River joint at top and a Borgeson at the box.

 

thanks. i actually understand, which, considering how much i knew about steering conversions/rescues when i started hanging out at this site (zero) and what i've learned from you folks since then, is remarkable!