odd fire follies. crank issues..

hey guys. i am putting the odd fire together yet again. im done with iraq, done with hurricanes in florida and back out in arizona now. yay!

anyway, we put it together, torqued the crank down (spun nicely), installed the pistons (and they move freely), bolted them to the crank and even though it was tight, it still moved.

we used lucas engine assembly lube (good ammount) and it turned. we let it sit over night and when we started working on it the next day, the crank was froze. took #3 cap off and it spun freely. put it back together and and it spun again. let it sit over night, the next day it was froze again. we swapped the bearings between 1 and 3. and it spun. let it sit and it froze YET again (#3 cap too tight). so...we massaged the bearing with 1000 grit, cleaned it up, stuck it back in and it spun. yawn..next day, it was froze.

right now, its sitting in my dads garage, 1/2 assembled, and i am really puzzled. is lucas assembly lube as good as they claim? anything i am over looking? right now, i am under the opinion that we finish assembly and hit it with the starter and let the 2 metals work it out.

its just weird because itll work when we put it together, but the next day, it wont turn.
not much of a temp variation either. loosen #3 cap to 20 ft-lbs and itll spin the next day, but at specs, itll turn tonight, but not tomorrow...
thoughts?

 

X2? Dont just crank it over or you will be doing it again

 

yup. Need to know clearance on the mains

 

i did plastigauge it. it was between 2-3 thousand on avg. like i said, when i bolt it up, itll turn, but if i let it sit for a few hours, it stops turning...maybe something with the lucas assembly lube?

and in all atuality, it may turn, i just dont wanna apply the 150 ft-lbs (or whatever) to the crank bolt. it might break.

 

i may go buy some more and recheck the tolerance. JUST to be sure.

 

Check to be sure the rod cap and the cylinder next to it are not on backwards.

 

it shouldn't need anywhere near 150lbs of torque to turn it over if everything is right.

And for the record, self clearancing is over rated as a method of freeing something up. Need to figure it out the right way.

 

Should turn over by hand with a wrench when everything is torqued assuming the heads are off or spark plugs are out

 

yeah, the spark plugs are out, so it is free except for the binding. caps are on as they came from the factory. we marked before dissassembly with number and a position. i dont know how much pressure it would actually take, the 150 lbs was just to convey difficulty. maybe i will put the torque wrench on it and turn it till it either turns or reaches a stupid ammount of force and i stop. or back it down to 20 lbs on that rod cap and locktite the crap out of it. =)

i dont like the idea of self clearance (for the record), but we have put many hours into this and growing tired of it. i know the journal is correct because number 4 rod spins freely and its on the same journal (plus, it was also plastigauged). we have swapped bearings and the problem remains, so its either the journal or the cap. but it has been mic'ed and the bearing massaged down a bit. crank was not dropped and is not out of round either. everything was cleaned up before install.

i dunno.

 

Just throwing out an idea. Could the bore alignment be off just enough to squeeze out the oil overnight? The clearance would read correct at center cap but not on one side.

 

did you check the rod to crank side clearance? Check the rods for straightness? Double check and make sure the rod isn't in backward?

 

are the rods straight with no twists? I think I would disconnect rods and caps one at a time once it's 'frozen' again and try to turn it after each item is removed. When it turns whatever the last item removed is what I'd check in detail.

It isn't bolted up to the tranny is it?

 

ok. we put the shim in it as i reported and it turned freely.
its been sitting a week because of one reason or another. today, we put the front cover, pan, intake and got it ready, i spun the crank bolt on the harmonic b and then put the wrench to it and nothing. the damn thing is froze over again.

if i loosen or remove #3 cap, itll spin. i tighten it to 15, 20 then 30# and itll spin. let it sit and it stops. i am bald now. i am so damn frusterated with it i feel like giving up, buying 2 more pistons and rebuilding my 350 and throwing it in like i planned 7 years ago.
i have 3 even fire motors i could throw in, 2 of which are complete...but no even fire flywheels and they are $350 bux each new.

i am ready to walk away from this oddfire 231. UG!
i have so much money in it, i cant tho.



the rods are ok, the caps are positioned as they came out of the factory and i have run the engine before. we marked them on the side of the rod thats closest to the front before unbolting them. itll spin easily at 15 lbs ...no hang ups on the sides, the other rod, nothing. its smooth. its tight at 30 lbs, but it spins. i rotated 360 degrees 4-5 times at 30# JUST to make sure itll spin after we shimmed it. but, you let it sit and itll freeze up EVEN with the shim.
crank is cut .010 and it perfectly cut. bearings were swapped and rod 3 still freezes. something must be wrong with the cap...but, it spins nicely when you first torque it down...

anyone have an idea of why itll spin freely then freeze up after sitting a few hours?