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New Member With A Clutch Conundrum

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by 46ODDFIRE, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. Aug 7, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
    Joined:
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    Hi everyone, and thanks for participating in these great forums. I have a variation of a problem some of you have dealt with before, but my scenario seems (best I can tell) to be unique.

    A short version of the backstory: My family got a 1946 CJ2A in 1969. My dad did the Dauntless V6 conversion, with a T-18 1-B and an overdrive. We lived in the mountains and high desert of Northeastern California. You can imagine all the family fun that ensued. This Jeep was a monster, by the way. My dad was always the guy who got through the tough parts unassisted, then helped winch or tow somebody else out of trouble.

    Fast-forward four decades. Dad and both of my brothers are dead, and I have the Jeep. I brought it out here to Virginia, which is kinda sad, because it belongs back in the mountains, but what can you do?

    So I was tooling through Newport News one day when, pop, the clutch linkage breaks. One end of the bellcrank tube had finally worn through and the threads holding the stud in the transmission casing are stripped and shot. A friend and I fabricated a new bracket setup with a new, slightly shorter bellcrank tube and new mechanical linkage, replacing my dad's (or brother's) home-welded bars, cables and clevises. I also replaced the fork. The new fork, from Novak, matches the original exactly. The linkage bits are the same length as the originals, or darn close.

    By the way, there had been no return spring on the clutch pedal, no return spring on the fork, and only one spring clip pinching the fork onto the mushroom stud. It had probably been like this for years, maybe decades, with the fork just sort of magically staying in place -- until the linkage broke. I don't know that this is relevant to my subsequent problem, but I want to mention all the variables. (And yes, I added return springs.)

    We put it all together and: It would not disengage the clutch. We adjusted a little here, a little there, with no success. One note: After the pushing the clutch pedal through the free-play portion of its stroke, it was very hard to push, and did not feel at all right. From underneath, I could see that that the throw-out bearing moves back and forth freely, and that the clutch fingers (it has the three-finger style clutch, not the diaphragm) move a little when the pedal is depressed. But, like I said, there is a lot of resistance. But the clutch would not disengage: It was grinding gears at every attempt. By the way: I do have the fork fingers in the groove of the throw-out bearing, not on the back "shoulder."

    One day, another friend was underneath while I was pushing the pedal. He fiddled with the cable length, then asked me to try shifting with the pedal just partly depressed. That worked. I am not an ace mechanic, and I don't really understand how you could push the clutch release mechanism too hard to actually release the clutch, but I guess it's possible.

    But I was back happily driving around. For a few days. Until I broke a rear axle just cruising down Main Street. But set that aside. The point is that the Jeep was back in the garage for several weeks while I dealt with the axle. (I have been learning a lot, folks!) I finally got that straightened out and buttoned Friday afternoon. I jumped in, fired it up (it sounds so cool, and so "Dad") and: the clutch won't disengage!

    Aaaargh! From my research on this and other sites, there are two likely causes: 1. The clutch plate has rusted onto the flywheel or 2. Something was done incorrectly when the clutch was installed (backward clutch plate, wrong throw-out bearing, etc.).

    But: 1. My Jeep has been in a garage for a few weeks, not in a field for a few years. Nevertheless, I started it, in gear, and drove around the neighborhood a bit, pushing the clutch pedal in multiple times. Nothing shook loose or freed up. 2. Only the fork and linkage have been replaced or adjusted.

    I am baffled. I have, of course, tried every possible adjustment of the linkage, ranging from almost zero pedal freeplay to almost all freeplay. No success.

    Of course, I keep thinking the problem may be up in the clutch itself, but that would seem to make no sense. Remember: I drove it into the garage with a working clutch and never touched the clutch again until the axle was repaired. What could possibly have changed while it was sitting in the garage?

    (Sorry about the extreme length of this post, but I figure I should give you all the detailed info I can.)


    Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  2. Aug 7, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    In humid conditions (think Tidewater in the summer!), the clutch disc can stick to the flywheel from lightly rusting. Most clutch linings are porous and absorb moisture from the air. You made mention of sticking discs, so you are aware. The best way to break it free is to start it, essentially in gear because the clutch won't disengage. I like it in 3rd, maybe even 4th gear. You should be able to start in 3rd gear once the engine has been started and warmed up in neutral. Just putt around the neighborhood, knowing you will stall if you come to a stop. While driving with a little running room, hold the clutch pedal down in the disengaged postition (actually, ALL the driving should be done with the clutch pedal on the floor), then floor it, then back off, floor it, back off. This usually jars the disc free from the jerking of the driveline. If done aggressively, you may actually getting the rear tires to skid a bit on deceleration. It should break the disc free.

    All this is assuming that your clutch linkage is operating more or less correctly. Clutch linkages, especially home spun versions, often have a sweet spot where they work effectively. A little too much, or too little on the adjustment, and it doesn't work well. It may be helpful to have someone watch the throwout bearing travel while someone else moves the pedal. Get the freeplay adjusted so the throwout bearing is just off the clutch fingers with the pedal at rest, and an inch or two of pedal movement makes contact with the fingers. This should make the rest of the pedal travel disengage the clutch.
    With a little trial and error, you should find the sweet spot.
    -Donny
     
  3. Aug 7, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Donny: Thanks for the response. After 26 years, I still can't believe the humidity out here! But it's hard to believe that this could happen over such a short period of time. Note that I already started in gear and bounced around the neighborhood. However, I was in 1st gear, so I will try again in 3rd or 4th. As unlikely as the stuck disc theory seems to me, it is the theory that best matches the symptoms, as far as I can see, so I'm not ruling it out!
     
  4. Aug 7, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Sticky rusty disc is very possible.

    I usually just put it in First Low, and "give 'er some," on-and-off the gas sharply and repeatedly.

    Or try putting it up against a tree, then cranking the starter with the clutch depressed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  5. Aug 7, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    So this not only happens, but it happens enough that you've dealt with multiple times? That gives me an official excuse to drive the Jeep regularly! I don't have a suitable tree in my front yard, but my neighbor does, and he's out of town, so....
     
  6. Aug 8, 2017
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    well I also live in tidewater area . and also have had clutch plate get stuck . from lack of driving or worst just moving it into and out of garage without driving it anywhere . the starting of engine in gear , with clutch pedal on floor works . I agree with others let engine warm up first , so it will fire right off . 1st time it happen , I pulled every thing down to find plate stuck to flywheel . took a rap of hammer to make it fall off . never again
     
  7. Aug 8, 2017
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    I'm wondering if this is the problem...am I reading this right, it hasn't worked properly since you replaced the clutch linkage?
    That would be my first suspicion, something in your linkage isn't right.
     
  8. Aug 8, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Thanks Ron. It looks like you and I have very similar drive trains, before the axles, at least (and I'll assume your power steering is not from a '60s Mustang, as mine is....). So thanks in advance for answering all my future questions!
    Anyway, I've tried starting in gear and driving around, pumping the clutch, but I will try it again, more aggressively, today.
     
  9. Aug 8, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Doug: That was certainly my first, second, and third suspicion. I'm just feeling like I've adjusted and readjusted the linkage every which way, over and over, with no results. All the linkage has to do is keep the bearing just off the three fingers until the pedal is depressed, and it should then push the fingers forward, right?
    The stuck-to-the-flywheel theory seems unlikely because the Jeep was never parked for all that long. And if it did rust to the flywheel, the clutch should have popped loose in my previous attempts at starting and driving with the clutch in.
    But the theory does seem to fit the symptoms, and it's true that the Jeep was parked for a while before each occurrence of the problem ... So I'm out of ideas, and hoping the collective forum brain can help me out!
     
  10. Aug 8, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    The clutch in my Triumph TR8 will stick after 3 or 4 days of not driving it, though it breaks free pretty easy. If I park it for 2 weeks, it takes a lot more persuasion to free it up. I have found that a taller gear (like 3rd on a 4 or 5 spd) works best. A spring hub clutch also breaks free much easier than a solid disc.
    Just make sure the linkage is adjusted before you do this, and keep the clutch pedal to the floor the whole time you drive it around trying to free it.
    -Donny
     
  11. Aug 8, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    With all of those troubles is it possible the cable stretched? Maybe the splines are dirty and the disc doesn't slide easily? Just throwing out a couple more ideas.
     
  12. Aug 8, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Glenn: Thanks. I'll rule out the stretchy cable theory, because it's new and because I've adjusted and re-adjusted so many, many, many times. But dirty, gummed-up splines.... maybe. Do I have any hope of cleaning them via the hole in the bell housing the throw-out lever/fork fits through? Maybe multiple blasts of brake parts cleaner?
     
  13. Aug 8, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Brake cleaner is worth a try, obviously be careful with the T/O bearing.
     
  14. Aug 8, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Thank you, gentlemen! I am mobile again, and shifting happily and easily into any old gear I choose! It took starting in 3rd gear, with the clutch in, plus a bunch of throttle, just as you suggested. Unbelievable! Will I need A/C in my garage to prevent this happening over and over?
    I'm not out of the woods yet. There is a worrisome rubbing sound coming from somewhere underneath, or in the back of, the Jeep. But I am counting this as a very good day, thanks to y'all!
    Once I get that figured out, it's back to happier projects, like attaching the seats properly (very much a kludge job right now).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  15. Aug 8, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    Glad to hear the clutch broke free. I think all you need to do is drive the Jeep every week or two, unless you are looking for an excuse to install A/C in your garage
    -Donny
     
  16. Aug 8, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Thank you, Donny: I'll go for the drive-it-often option.
     
  17. Aug 9, 2017
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

    Louisville, Ky
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    Just put a dehumidifier in your garage, can get one at Lowes or HD, will be cheaper than doing AC. May need to empty it a couple times a day. Will help with slowing down the rust process too. Been running a dehumidifier in my garge 24/7, for the past 4 years.
     
  18. Aug 9, 2017
    46ODDFIRE

    46ODDFIRE Member

    Richmond, VA
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    Joe: I'll bet the garage is a lot more comfortable, too, even if it's still hot.
     
  19. Aug 9, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    That would cost more in electricity than the value of my jeep!
     
    Twin2 likes this.
  20. Aug 9, 2017
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

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    Before I did that, had rust on tools and anything metal
     
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