Looking to buy a flat fender Willys - what am I getting myself into?

I've been looking around for a flat fender willys for about 2 years now. I keep checking the local papers, for-sale-ads, and local Jeep forums and when one comes up, I check it out.

The first flat fender I looked at was a '49 3A. It had a running original engine, body was so-so, gas tank had been moved to the back of the Jeep (needed replaced again), the factory hitch was cut off of the Jeep to accomodate the new tank location. Had 5 orginal wheels, no top, 2 bucket seats out of a VW bug, and needed some things like lights, wipes, etc. replaced. Frame was pretty solid. The guy was asking $2000.

I then checked out a '52(?) M38. The body was real rough (basically needed a new tub). Windshield frame was broken and the glass was broken. Original wheels, seat frames, some lights, etc. Frame was pretty solid. Would also need a lot of little things like lights, guages, etc. No top. I was told the engine ran, but I didn't start it up. The guy was asking $1000.

Next up was a '46 2A. It was pretty much in the same condition as the M38 I described above only the windshield and frame was still good. Body was in a little better shape and maybe even salvageable. Guy was asking $1000 for that one as well.

Then came another 3A, but it was basically a pile of rusty parts. $400.

Then I moved on to a '63 3B. This was probably the best deal of all of them. It had a good running original engine. New breaks, hoses, and some other small items. Lights, guages, etc. all worked. Solid frame. Body was so-so and the floor had a lot of holes. 2 bucket seats were out of some other vehicle. No top. Guy was asking $750. I probably should have bought that one, but I waited too long and someone else snatched it up.

I've seen a few for-sale ads since then but I haven't checked them out. I'm starting to wonder what I'm getting myself into. I love the old flat fenders and always have. I'm a huge Jeep fan in general and I have a lot of fun with the Jeeps I have already. I'm just not sure how much work something like this is going to be. I've never done any kind of resto project before. Hell, I don't even own a garage. I guess I just have a lot of questions:

1) Based on the descriptions I gave above, are those prices reasonable?
2) How easy are parts to come by? Are there parts that are harder to find than others?
3) Is there anything in particular that I should look for when I consider buying a Willys in the future?
4) What is the one most important starting point? Solid frame? Solid body? Good running engine / drivetrain? Something else?
5) Am I just being stupid for even considering taking on a project like this without a garage?
6) I have limited mechanical skills. Should I just save my money and buy a Willys that is a little closer to having the resto done?

I'm not looking at making a trail rig (have the YJ for that, besides I like the old Willys in stock form), but I'm not looking at doing a complete resto at this point either. I'm basically looking at something I can get on the road / light trails with classic plates / registration and have fun with on the weekends.

Any other thoughts to my long post? R)

 

having completely gone through a willys it seems like the prices are pretty much on the money for where i used to live. i know i aw a weird windsield frame in a junkyard as i drove by and picked up the willy for 900 dollars. the owner didn't make any claims about the engine, the frame was a tad bit messed up, and the body needed alot of work. soce working on that one and finding the places things tend to pop up on i'd reccomend hanging around willystech, the local jeep clubsite, and even ebay for people who don't want to ship things. to anser your questions:

2) there are some hard to come by parts, it has been a while since i hunted them down, but most parts can still be bought new.
3) i'd mainly look for the frame... axles can be swapped and body tubs can be bought, but it would just suck to tear everything apart and not have something to start outtingthings on. but that's ust my oppinion. cracks usually form around spring hangers and bumper attachments.
4) above... i automatically figured soemting siting for a while needed a rebuilt engine and it didn'tset me back muh, but i wouldn't even begin to know where toget a frame straightened.
5) i completed mine without a garage and basic hand tools. it's time consuming nd reqires planning around weather, but can be done.
6) nope... these things are simple. there's not much tha can go wrong between the forum and books as a reference.

when you finish it it'll all be worth it. it hit me over the summer as i had a friend driving me home over the summer. i pulled something out of someones back yard, tore everything off, and put every bolt back in. somehow the jeep was managing to go 75 down the expressway with someone who had never driven it before and i wasn't dead yet. once you can realize that youll have a toy for life...

 

I'm currently working on reparing the 53' CJ3B in the avatar picture above. It was sitting outside for about 20 years after my uncle parked it. I am new to working on cars but I got it for free so I figured I would try and fix it up. I recently started the original engine and it runs great. I'll probably have it rebuilt eventually though. Try to get one with an engine that runs if you can. It will motivate you to keep working and its nice to hear.
The frame on mine has rust on the outside but I think its still pretty solid. The entire tub needs to be replaced which is what you will most likley find. Also a lot of the hoses and wires may be shot and will need to be replaced among other things. I like working on this jeep however because of its relative simplicity. Simple tools can do just about everything. It does take time and you will have to wait fot a lot of part orders but, if you do some investigating and taking things apart you can order many different things at the same time. Check out websites like kaiserwillys.com and even advanceautoparts.com for one day shipping. I have a garage to work on mine in but if the weather is good, you should be fine outside. If you have the time and some money it can be a lot of fun.

 

based on what you have posted above, I think you are better off looking for a Jeep that is road/trail ready.
you will pay more for that convenience, but probably worth every penny.
Tumbleweed has his flatty listed for sale here; when you read thru the partial list of all the mods that have been made to that Jeep, it would be an outstanding value/purchase for that price IMO.
you just can't build a Jeep like that for the asking price, time and money figured in.
some folks prefer the $400 fixer upper and go from there; you soon realize that you can dump a lot of money very quickly in little time; some folks abandon the $400 fixer upper very quickly, due to time and money constraints.

I think a person who is patient can still find a good looking, good running Jeep in the 3-4K range with some mods already performed.
Keep looking, they are out there.

 

But that $400 fixer-upper may be the only thing a person can swing $$$-wise. Old Bill was free originally, but you'd be surprised how quickly you can add the receipts. The benefit is that you don't have to dump a whole bunch of money at one shot. Lord knows that if I had to come up with all the money up front, I'd never been able to finish off Old Bill. Nickel and diming worked to my advantage.

It really depends on what you want to do. If you're really looking to dig into something, then the lesser expensive one may be a better choice. But if you want to hit the trails right away, then drop the $$$ up front.

 

wasn't trying to offend anyone no matter which way they choose to go.
just trying to explain that the cheapest $400 Jeep may not be the way to go, if you don't have the garage, skills, time, or money.

 

True $400 Jeeps are rarely that. Had a guy that did a lot of cars tell me to figure up what you THINK it's going cost then double it. I'd say at least that.

 

JMHO - if this were for me, I'd go Jim's (jpflat2a) route, and spend the money up front. However, I'm in the financial position to do that ... and I've had junkers (no offense) that I've built up in the past. Now, I'd look for a Jeep with 3 main attributes - frame in good shape, original body in good shape, and complete. I'd also be willing to go a long distance to find the right Jeep too...

However, with the right attitude, enough time, and some research and knowledge, you can build up an inexpensive car cheaply. You will have many fewer options regarding drivetrain, appearance options, and aftermarket add-ons. You'll spend a lot of time looking for parts though - maybe not a bad thing if you enjoy that part of the rebuild (as I do). Also, the 2A and 3A are now old enough and popular enough that you probably won't get very much for your money compared to, say, a CJ-5 or a Jeepster. One possibility would be to find a CJ-5 and a flattie with a good body and put them together (as on the CJ-3B page). Even a rotten flattie body can be repaired if you have the welding and metal working skills. Or, you might look to buy somebody's unfinished project.

 

You need to decide what the jeep is for. I have three that will never see a trail. They will be parade or show only. I have another that will see light duty trail, for hunting/fishing or camping/sightseeing and will be a somewhat workhorse and local driver. Lots of you gents here are serious off roaders. If you want parade or show that's one or two directions. Dedicated off road is another and workhorse, another still.
What do you plan to do with it?
It doesn't make sense to find an all original 2A and then swap drivetrains and do a lift and it also doesn't make sense to take a traile rig and bring it back to original.
Those few hundred dollar jeeps sometimes have parts that will help in a resto or as a source of parts that you just ripped up on the trail. They can be a real bargain if they have what you need.

 

i suppose i should clarify what i meant... i was half heartedly looking for a willys over the summer, but knew that i wanted to put either a 4.3 or 225 in it, and knew that i had an sm420 to go in it, and knew where i could get axles for it. so the only thing i was really looking for was a flatty with a somewhat solid frame to start everything off of. it comes down to what everyone else was saying, if you want one to drive around quickly and do projects on it here and there then it would be better to spend the money up front, but if you've got a building plan for what you want then maybe the 400 dollar junker would be a better building block. i've honestly never had one that i could drive home and do a couple little things to it to feel safe going down the road so it seems as though that line of thinking is completely new to me... i honestly like seeing something that most people thought was too far gone come back to life.

 

I've done OK picking up other people's leftover projects. A lot of times they come with the parts already, just not assembled or finished.

Jim

 

not saying it can't be done guys
re-read the orignal post
IMO purchasing a driveable/trailable Jeep is his best bet (trailable...is that a word ?)

 

Thanks for all of the replies. I appreciate all of the information and experiences. To answer a few of the questions that were brought up...

I'm not looking to build a trail rig. I have a YJ on 4.5" of lift and 33"s. That gets me most places I have any desire to go. I'm not an extreme off-roader, so thats probably big enough for me and all the trail rig I need.

I'd be happy with a stock engine / drivetrain / T-case as long as it works. I'm not looking at doing a bigger engine swap.

I'd like to have an original body. I don't mind replacing a few pannels or patching a few holes as long as most of the original body can be salvaged.

I've seriously thought about this over the last 2 years. I think the $400 pile of parts sitting in the farmers field is beyond my skills. Although I would like to have the time, money, and skills to do a project like that. I just don't think I have it in me. From what everyone has said so far, it sounds like I'm better off saving a few more dollars and buying a project that is already started / nearly complete. I wouldn't get the satisfaction of bringing an old rusty pile of parts back to life, but I know I would enjoy finishing what someone else started and putting the finnishing touches on a Jeep to get it back on the road.

 

Too bad this post didn't rear up a couple of months ago. I've got a 54 3B I've been thinking about parting with. Pretty clean stocker. However, I'm headed for Afghanistan in a couple of weeks, so probably won't be able to do anything with it till I get back.

 

Just my opinion, but man, it's tough trying to work on stuff without a garage or a shop of some sort, at least for me. I have a small 2-car garage, which would be adequate for working on the Jeep except I need to keep one side open all winter for the wife's minivan, so I'm tight for space. I couldn't even imagine trying to restore a vehicle outdoors. Any way you could put in a garage or big shed, or move? One of our members here is doing some amazing work in nothing more than a big shed. Making some of us look bad too!

 

Planning on moving in a year or two. Wife and I are just renting a place now. We don't plan on being here much longer. First thing I'm looking for in our new house will be a garage or at least a plce where I can build a pole barn or something. I definately need some place to work on the Jeep(s).

Jeepdaddy - Good luck in Afghanistan. I'd be interested in your 3B, but PA to OR is a bit of a drive.

 

I just came across this one. Looks like what you're looking for. Send him an e-mail.

http://bbb.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=39;t=009591

 

Nice rig, but I'm looking for something that's basically stock form. $9.5K is a little out of my price range too.