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Is this the V6 manifold vacuum port?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by FinoCJ, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. Feb 4, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yep - this is the problem. It took just about all my finger strength pulling on the advance weights to get the advance cam to move. I put some oil on it and have continued working it back and forth - its freed up some, but there is a lot of friction between the cam and the underlying advance plate. Any idea on how to get that cam to move back to no advance under the influence of the springs only?At the moment I have left the distributor in, just removed the cap and rotor.

    thanks
     
  2. Feb 5, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Well, I would remove the distributor and disassemble it. Make sure the advance weights move freely on the bench before you put the distributor back in the car.

    I have dissasembled distributors before, but not a Delco. Here are some hints about disassembly of the Delco distributor - http://www.junkyardgenius.com/jeep/cj502.html - this conversion won't work for your distributor, but the discussion about removing the gear and the clip should apply.

    Likely you have rust and/or gummed-up oil or grease in there binding up the advance weights. The resistance to movement of the weights without the springs should be negligible - it should be all spring tension holding the weights back.

    You may not need to take it all apart, but I would pull the distributor rather than work on little parts hanging over an engine, where dropped parts can so easily disappear. You know that you can pull the distributor and put it back - it's not hard if you return it to the same place it was.
     
  3. Feb 5, 2014
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sep 17, 2009
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    One other possibility. One that had me scratching my head for awhile a couple decades ago. Make sure the advance plate is solid on the shaft!! In the one I had problems with, there was enough slop in that "pressed on" connection that it would wobble and hang up everytime it went advanced and would not return to static.
     
  4. Feb 5, 2014
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    You will have to remove the dist and remove the lower gear and shim/shims. Remove the shaft as per "junkyardgenius" (posted by Timgr) and this will give you access to the cam lobe part. This is what has to move freely on the shaft.
     
  5. Feb 6, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thanks guys - that helped. I took out the distributor, removed the shaft, removed the advance weights/springs, and then after a lot of hassle got the advance plate off the shaft. That was never going rotate properly without complete removal and cleaning. Cleaned weights/springs and cam as well, and everything snaps back in place when advance is twisted. Put it all back together with a little lube and slid it in place in the engine but haven't restarted yet - test tomorrow.

    My question today is - the advance plate was stamped CCW 722. I understand the CCW refers to the direction the plate moves (relative to the cam) for advance. And I assume the 722 tells me something about how much advance it will give, but I cannot interpret it. Obviously, once everything is back up and running I will check with timing light.

    thanks
     
  6. Feb 8, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Is there anyway that during the removal and reinstall of the distributor that I could have blocked off an oil line? Restarted the engine and I get zero oil pressure on my mechanical gauge on the dash - didn't install it myself but it generally seems to work, or at least shows pressure of some kind.
     
  7. Feb 8, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If it were really zero, you would hear a loud clatter from the lifters because they would not have pumped up. It's probably something to do with the gauge plumbing.
     
  8. Feb 8, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I disconnected the line from the gauge at engine block - its connects into the block just to the rear of the oil pump. I believe this is where the oil 'idiot' light pressure sensor would have been installed. Started the engine with that 'hole' open and get a slow dribble to almost a stream. Seems like that should be squirting out a lot more? Removed filter to make sure nothing obvious blocking there - and its brand new, less than 100 miles.

    As for the sound - its definitely making much more of a clacking sound, especially from the right bank, but the timing isn't right since I had the distributor out. Looking down into the valve cover through the oil cap and breather cap on the left bank, and not seeing much oil even with engine running - but I am not familiar with how much oil should be there.
     
  9. Feb 8, 2014
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Just how thin is the oil? It is contaminated with gas right now but don't have any idea how bad. With cold engine and oil, you should have at least 30psi on the gauge..
     
  10. Feb 10, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Many thanks to all!!! The jeep is running great! Still not really sure what was going on with oil pressure, but I noticed the distributor was not quite sitting all the way down so I pulled it back out, made sure there was nothing on the distributor gear and o-ring and then reinstalled and made sure it sat all the way down on. Had some hassle getting re-installed and had to manually reset to TDC and set rotor to #1 tower, but then it fired right up with good oil pressure - not sure if it was how the distributor was installed or gauge issue, but the clacking noise on the right bank disappeared completely.

    Reset initial timing (8* - is that too much given the high elevation here in Denver and in the mts?), checked mechanical timing as its working now (about 14* advance), and the new vac can is also working. Also confirmed all the previous work with vacuum check, idle mix screws and idle speed screw. Haven't been able to take it out for a test drive until the clutch cable is repaired - part is shipping, but the sound and smoothness of the engine is reward enough at this point. Here is to hoping for better performance and better gas mileage!

    Although I can only give all of you digital cheers :beer: I am making a donation to keep the lights on around here as thanks for all the help (and future help).
     
  11. Feb 11, 2014
    djbutler

    djbutler Sponsor

    Rio Linda CA
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    Distributor not sitting all the way down, sounds for sure like you were not engaging the oil pump drive with the distributor shaft. Glad you didn't run it too long with no oil pressure. Good job noticing that.

    On the 8° advance, it may be too much. Mine will ping and rattle on acceleration with that much advance, runs much better at 5-6° advance.

    BTW, if you are wondering how I found the key for °, try holding down the ALT key while using the numeric keypad and enter ALT + 248. You can get any of the high ASCII symbols using the ALT + the ASCII code on the numeric keypad.

    Don
     
  12. Feb 12, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thanks - I will keep notice to see if I get any pinging. Was thinking I could push the advance a few more degrees given the high elevation but maybe I probably don't fully understand that (or maybe its the other way around - was thinking in terms of burn time). In truth, I am not looking for big performance gains - happy to pretty much run it stock set up at 5º (on a Mac its fn+option+0 keys).

    Question regarding the oil pump drive - is it directly connected to the distributor? I would have guessed it was driven off of the crankshaft and the distributor would not have any affect. But it certainly seemed as though it did. The bottom of the distributor gear had a short (1/8-1/4inch) toungue/slat (?) that sat into a groove on top of some sort of shaft down in the distributor hole - sorry really know idea what is down there - and that is what was difficult to get lined up for the distributor to sit all the way down. Is that the oil pump drive or connected directly to it? Not critical - just asking to learn something new.

    THANKS. Clutch adjuster nut arrived last night - hope to have it driving down the road soon!
     
  13. Feb 12, 2014
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    James - my notes show 6 to 8° is what I ran before going to HEI. Altitude would bump a touch and play with the float depending on how it was running while wheeling.
     
  14. Feb 12, 2014
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    About the oil pump shaft. The gear on the bottom of the dist shaft is driven by a gear on the cam shaft. The dist shaft is keyed into the slot in the oil pump gear and that is the only way the oil pump is driven so if the dist is not all the way down into the slot then no oil pump rotation.
     
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