Intermediate gear markings?

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by 1955CJ-5, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. Dec 3, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    This is a picture of the markings on the intermediate gear from my Dana 18...

    Anyone recognize the mark?

    Is it Dana or a repro?

    Thanks!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  2. Dec 4, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Looks like a repro. That is not the Dana logo and I don't recognize it.
     
  3. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    Thanks Nick,

    I got the same response over at the 2a forum.....this is for the 3a transfer case....

    The TC has a loud high-pitched noise at about 40 mph and I'm trying to figure it out....I've changed the intermediate shaft but no improvement....All the bearings were replaced....So I'll try a new gear. Crown seems to be all that is available, as I've called every vendor I can think of and no one has any old stock....

    At the very least the noise ought to be different with a new gear!

    The old CJ-5 which has never been rebuilt is just as quiet as can be......

    Thanks!

    Randy
     
  4. Dec 4, 2014
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Have you tried it in 4 low to see if you have the same noise?
     
  5. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    I've tried everything i can think of...I've even driven it with the rear drive shaft removed. It does not seem to be a function of engine or transmission speed but it comes on noticeably at about 38 mph and starts to fade a little by about 45 mph...but it's still there. It is loud. After a minute or two you just want to stop. The sound is the same and happens at the same road speed whether it's in direct or OD...I've even run it with the rear drive shaft off, in 2wd, just spinning the e-brake drum. I'ts not bad until you load it a little with the e brake..it pretty much disappears when you let off the gas when driving, so it really only happens when it's loaded....

    The inter gear teeth look good to me, and the bore looks OK, i'm just thinking the bore is worn beyond limits so a new gear may help. Output shaft end play is good, and all bearings were replaced about 1000 miles ago.

    I'm resisting pulling the TC but that may be the only way to fix it....I can change the intermediate gear with the TC in place.....

    I'm open to ideas....

    All the pictures I have of it are here:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  6. Dec 4, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Any vibration or feeling thru the floor or shift levers?
     
  7. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    No more vibration than you'd expect. It doesn't change as you speed up, like something is loose or making contact with the tub.....and this has been ongoing, it didn't just start making the noise one day.....

    I've put pressure on the shift levers when driving and no real change in the sound...it's real difficult to isolate

    I also forgot to mention that it is most noticeable in third gear, so in my mind that rules out a transmission gear causing the noise....of course it could be the counter gear shaft or reverse idler shaft, but all those were replaced when the transmission was rebuilt, about 1000 miles ago....

    See if this will play for you:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  8. Dec 4, 2014
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    To me that doesn't even sound like a gear whine.
     
  9. Dec 4, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    back to basics...throw us a bone....
    You had the trans rebuilt or the previous owner did?
    You did the rebuild yourself, and inspected all the gears and shafts?
    You're going on somebody else's statements about the trans rebuild?
    The noise was there before the rebuild...or after the rebuild...or both?

    If it's louder in 3rd gear, that tells me main drive gear, rollers, and/or mainshaft problem...or all together.
     
  10. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    The jeep was not driveable when I bought it...

    engine was professionally rebuilt by a fellow who does most the engines for the local MVPA fellows....it runs great...

    I rebuilt both the transmission and transfer case using parts kits from Herm the overdrive guy and rebuild guides found on the various jeep forums. I am not a professional mechanic....anything is possible....I inspected everything to the best of my knowledge at that time......I may look at things a little differently if i need to do it again.....

    In third gear the input shaft (main drive gear #8 in the 2a/3a parts book) and main shaft(#23) are essentially locked together....1 to 1 ratio....no transmission gears are carrying a load....isn't that right?

    By rollers do you mean the roller bearings between the main drive gear and the mainshaft?

    I can't really say that I've had it up to 40mph in second gear.........
     
  11. Dec 4, 2014
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Are you sure it's not something in the e-brake assembly? Maybe the drum spinning is rubbing on something? To me it's just too high pitched to be a drivetrain gear or bearing. Generally bearings/shafts have more of a roar and gears whine, at least in my experience.

    You are correct that in 3rd it's direct drive, but the input and output transmission bearings of course have a load on them.
     
  12. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    Good point Glenn....that noise could be the e brake back plate resonating..or some other e brake part. I have driven it with the shoes fully retracted and no change.....

    My thoughts in isolating it to the transfer case was that at 40 mph in direct, noise at full tilt, shifting into OD made no difference in the noise. I would think the noise would change if it originated prior to the OD unit...which was new this spring.... engine and general background noise changes of course.

    I did check the TC output shaft end play, and it was right at .004, the bottom of the recommended range...

    I recently put a full top on it so without the wind noise and with radial tires it appears really loud......I should try and get a better recording....
     
  13. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    One other bit of info...I know that this jeep was flat-towed quite a bit before I bought it. It was first sold in Ohio, owned and used by the same family there from 1960 till about 10 years ago.

    One family member towed it to Boise, following work. Towed it back to Iowa, and then brought it back here again two or three years ago. It hadn't run in some time.

    The drive shafts were off when i bought it, but that dosen't mean they were always off when being towed....

    I know flat-towing can damage the transmission if not done properly....it's entirely possible that something is just plain worn out and i just didn't notice it....I'm thinking the main gear cup where the roller bearing go might be worn....still just guessing though...
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  14. Dec 4, 2014
    45es

    45es Sponsor Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    You missed what I believe is an important question.
     
  15. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

    Boise, Idaho
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    The jeep was not running when I bought it. Engine, transmission, transfer case...everything except the differentials was rebuilt prior to the first drive...new wheel bearings, cone and roller bearing in the front end, u-joints, seals etc....

    So it would have to be after the rebuild...

    Before? unknown....

    But I did email the PO hoping for some further info, but nothing yet...
     
  16. Dec 4, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    You're thinking after the OD, I'm thinking in front of it.
    It is quite high pitched.

    It could be a lot of things, but we'll let your int gear get re-installed first.
     
  17. Dec 4, 2014
    1955CJ-5

    1955CJ-5 Member

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    Glenn got me thinking about that pitch, and now you have mentioned it...too high really for gears turning 2000-2500 rpm...sounds more like a dremel tool or router at 15,000 rpm.....but maybe multiple roller bearings all humming together could make that sound....I really don't know......

    I'll get a replacement intermediate gear and install it, and see if there is any change......

    But if you have any ideas, speak up....this is far from over!
     
  18. Dec 4, 2014
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    If the common denominator is the road speed, and the sound is the same whether or not in OD it seems to me it has to be after the OD. The high pitch is baffling me.....it sounds almost like a machinery/electric motor sound.

    Who knows though, guys like jpflat2a have been around a lot of Jeeps for a lot of years, I'm just used to mine and a couple of others over the years.
     
  19. Dec 4, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Nope Glenn, just eliminating/guessing...
    What's baffling here is usually gears and bearings will respond to throttle response/load.
    The intermediate gear/shaft/rollers 99% of the time fall into that category.
    What might not respond and still squeal like that?
    speedometer, driven gear and/or cable
    felt seal on main drive gear
    oil slingers
    dust shield on output yokes spinning on yoke
    any rubber seal with a yoke

    then again, it could still be gear noise/whine with those aftermarket gears.

    You could remove the ebrake and run it without.

    Better to do one thing at a time though.
     
  20. Dec 4, 2014
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Yep Jim, one thing at a time for sure. Most certainly could be any of the things you listed. Definitely could use more audio time with going through gears from a stop.
     

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