1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

In 2 Gears At Once Or ??? , Wtf

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by 70cj5134f, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Feb 5, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,621
    I've had an intermediate shaft get so worn out it would lock up the t-case.....can't hurt to drop the pan and wiggle the gear, gotta start somewhere.
     
  2. Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    I'm pulling the pan and PTO cover and look before I drive again.
    Their was ,a couple weeks ago, a short strange noise, in the shift lever,when idling in N.
    When I first started it up. Lasted 5-10seconds. Shifter kinda vibrated then stoped.
    The silent stop thing has me puzzled. The day this happened, with 4-500lb wood in back,
    It would roll back bout a foot then stop hard and fast, but again no noise.
    Ps during my build I removed the PTO and lever, and made a homemade cover,
    Could I have done something wrong when removing this?
     
  3. Feb 5, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Messages:
    588
    Intriguing!

    1. Rear shaft removed and drum still binds, eliminates the rear-end.
    2. T-case in neutral, no binding. Seems to eliminate issues with the t-case output/main shaft assembly.

    Sounds to me like needle bearings might be binding due to incorrect end-play, or severe wear. This could either be the intermediate gear in the t-case like Glenn said, or the needle bearings between transmission input/output shaft. I would remove the t-case pan and pto cover, check the intermediate gear for wobble, then check the bull gear where you removed the PTO to make sure there is no wobble there.

    Less likely scenario here, but does the rear driveshaft slip yoke move freely? If that is locked-up, and with a load of wood, that could cram the driveshaft into the t-case and bind or mis-align something.
     
  4. Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    Ok, some more diagnostic info hopefully?
    Decided to test some more before I pull pto and t-case pan!
    Rear shaft out.
    In low 4wd, with hubs locked, it still stops or binds when in reverse,still silent.
    In N same with clutch out, u can feel jeep trying to pull forward slightly.
    With t-case in N, no pull.
    In high 4wd, no feeling of forward pull when clutch out, in N.
    In high 4wd, it backs up fine, coast with clutch in.
    In low 4wd, when backing up, it stops when clutch pushed in.
    Goijng to test drive a while, get the fluid warm, then pull inspection covers and drain fluid?
    What would cause it to continue to pull or stop with clutch in?
    Will post after covers off?
    Seems to be worse or only happen in low 4wd?
     
  5. Feb 5, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    3,054
    This is a transmission issue. Power is only making into the t-case because something is binding.

    Whether or not it's related to the reverse binding, it still could be seperate. Slim chance, but the chance is there.

    It feels worse in low range because the effects you are feeling are being multiplied by the gear reduction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f likes this.
  6. Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    After drive 15 min, now it acts normal in 4wd low? No stoppage in reverse, no pulling when in N.
    Going to drain fluid, maybe some sort of trash binding it up when cold?
    When I bought this project, it set outside with no boot on trans shifter.
    I've changed fluid only once.
    Might get lucky and drain the problem out, LOL
     
  7. Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    Both drain plugs out, T90, kinda normal, black-brown stink. T-case, black first, then kinda mud pie looking stuff? Going to leave open all night!
    No metal chunks! Will put magnet in pans tomorrow!
     
  8. Feb 5, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Messages:
    588
    This is a major clue. In neutral, engine running, clutch out, the transmission input shaft spins, the output/main shaft does not. The only way you get forward pull is if there is binding between input and main shaft..especially a slight pull. If it were a gear, it is pretty much in gear or not in gear...no real opportunity for silent drag there. I suppose there is a chance a synchro collar is out of whack and dragging a blocking ring on a gear cone, but that seems less likely.

    Either way, I am with Ryan and still thinking transmission. With the water intrusion, I'll go out on a limb and guess the loose roller bearings between input and output shaft in the transmission have seen better days.
     
  9. Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    I was planning on a rebuild for both, t case and t90, when I install my 3.7.
    But I need to narrow it down before engine install, I'm sure there will be enough headaches with engine I need the driveline correct before attempting the boat engine.
    So u all are thinking the problem in trans not t case?
    But why did it act up in 4wd low and not 2wd high?
    Anyway fresh fluid going in tomorrow and rear shaft back in!
    I'd hate to pull it apart, and not find the problem?
     
  10. Feb 5, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    3,054
    Pull the PTO cover and pull/push on the gear. If that isn't tight, it could be messing up the alignment/placement of the trans output shaft.
     
  11. Feb 5, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,621
    And pull the pan and check the intermediate shaft by grabbing the gear and trying to wiggle it. If nothing found there take the top off of the transmission and start looking for loose.....anything.
     
  12. Feb 6, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    Everything tight behind covers. Tranny drain kinda black but no metal.
    18 fluid 10% mud and water foam, but no metal.
    But, theirs always a but, I found this in 18 drain pan(I used separate pans to drain)
    It's non metallic, shaped just like a gear tooth, and feels like wood.
    If u look close u can see it's wedge shape where it's been in between the gears I think.
    I flushed the 18 with a qt of atf inside while turning by hand in all stick positions.
    I'm bout to fill everything up and test drive, keep your fingers crossed! 15494845489061399548709.jpg
     
  13. Feb 6, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,621
    Well now, that's interesting.
     
    70cj5134f likes this.
  14. Feb 6, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    Yes it is, and if it cures the problem I might tell the story of how a toothpick sized piece of wood can stop a 1800lb jeep???LOL
    Ps I've cut it in half with a razor, and it looks like oil soaked wood!
     
  15. Feb 6, 2019
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Sponsor Sponsor

    Sheboygan
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,273
    How would wood get inside a transfer case?
     
  16. Feb 6, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,621
    I've heard of putting sawdust in a gearbox to quiet it down. I get the impression you didn't pull the t-case pan off?
     
    47v6 likes this.
  17. Feb 7, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    It was raining like pouring out of a bucket when I finished up, no test drive yet.
    On stands all works correctly, forward and reverse on ground in shop, only bout 12ft,
    Also worked fine. Rain to stop soon, test drive today after work. If it happens again, I'll pull the pan, needed to finish this in a hurry, got a customer's atv to repair.
     
  18. Feb 9, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    After rain stoped, the farm had a couple of temp ponds of water, thought I ought to go play,and take a teat drive. 1st drove to store 1/2 mile round trip, in high 2wd, all worked fine.
    Then headed for the fields, 4wd low, all worked fine. Drove around 20-30 min in low,used reverse at least 10 times, all seems fine. I'll be nervous , each time i reverse, for a while till I'm sure it's ok.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  19. Feb 9, 2019
    NCRenII

    NCRenII yellow fever Sponsor

    Far Nor Cal
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Messages:
    389
    Great you found the apparent issue. A food flush may be in order. I like to add a 25% mix of 50% diesel/marvel mystery oil mix run it around a day or so and when warp pull the drain. iirc you mentioned trans set open for a period of time. No telling what drains out (more wood, nut shells mouse bones).
    Beleive it or not I've found that stuff as well as portions of wasp nests, unidentified bits and pieces of exo-skeleton, cigerette butts/filters, tools and metal scrap in transmissions, transfer cases and engines.
     
    70cj5134f likes this.
  20. Feb 9, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    In the 3-4 years since build, ive drained the trans and tcase 3 times now, each time it was nasty, not so much the tranny, but the tcase was always nasty.
    On a side note, a customer once brought me a carb, he said it would barley run, to get the bugs out, he said.
    Their were laterally dead bugs inside!
    Back to my problem, all the crap must find itself I to the t case, it's been the dirtiest every time
    Tranny fluid black, but t case oil full of chunks, mud the first two times, and along with the stick of wood, baby do-do look no stuff this time?.
    It originally had a PTO stick on it, maybe that's where some of it got in?
    Ps-what is the PTO worth anything? I still have it?
    I just glad to have it back in working order, I use it in winter on the farm daily.
    I'm tearing both down for inspection, when 3.7 goes in!
    First time I filled mine with half 80-90, half ATF, then drove a week or 2 on farm, it was a nasty drain!
     

Share This Page

New Posts