1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

In 2 Gears At Once Or ??? , Wtf

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by 70cj5134f, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Feb 4, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,126
    No. Just no. No No No.
     
  2. Feb 4, 2019
    Bowbender

    Bowbender I'm workin' on it! Sponsor

    Northern Minn.
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Messages:
    514
    Maybe low on knuckle pudding too...:poke:
     
    timgr and Twin2 like this.
  3. Feb 4, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    Was attempting to get it in the shop,it finally completely stopped going rearward.
    With stick in R, slowly let out clutch, kinda jumped,then stalled engine dead.
    Best in to 1st, it would pull forward, try R again, and it stalled.
    Threw a cardboard creeper under the jeep, for inspection.
    Front shaft free, tuned it by hand,so hubs are unlocked, and t case in 2wd.
    Rear shaft tight,would not turn any, not even rock. E brake drum stuck, hit it with
    A rubber mallett and it freed up. Back in jeep to put in shop, still won't backup, had to pull forward into shop.
    Up on Jack stands, tranny in neutral, rear shaft seems normal, no noise in diff.
    Shoes not locking e brake drum, their backed way off. Checked oil in t90, it is low,
    Will add fluid and run it on Jack stands later today.
    Had to stop yesterday, had a Superbowl shop party last night.
     
  4. Feb 4, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,332
    Jack up the rear end, put on stands, put everything in neutral and start at the rear tires. Turn them by hand. start there.
     
    dozerjim likes this.
  5. Feb 4, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    Found similar problems on cj3 forum. No definite answer. Most had rear diff issues.
    This may turn out to be a head scratcher?
     
  6. Feb 4, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    Rear shaft out, up on Jack stands. Start engine, all seems right, everythi g works, 2wd,4wdhigh,4wdlow, all forward gears and rev spins the front shaft and the e brake drum.
    But, engine off, I can't spin the e brake drum in reverse, only goes forward, binds about 1/8 turn reverse.
    It's not the shoes, I can rock the drum when it stops.
    Pulling the drum next?
    And it was bout 1 pint low on gear oil, now full!
    When on Jack stands, and engine running, the shift gate feels fine, slick and free.
    But trans in neutral, with engine off, I can't spin the drum reverse, it stops, no clunking ,just silent stop?
    Already scratching my head?
    What the H ,could it be???
     
  7. Feb 4, 2019
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,289
    Broken gear in transfer case.
     
    47v6 likes this.
  8. Feb 4, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Messages:
    522
    Sorry if I missed this, but did you try spinning the parking brake drum with the transfer case in neutral?

    With the t-case in 2H, 4H or 4L, even with the transmission in neutral, you are spinning everything up to (but not including) the transmission input shaft. Putting the transfer case in neutral will isolate the transmission and may help narrow down where the problem is.
     
    Walt Couch, 70cj5134f and tomasinator like this.
  9. Feb 4, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,332
    pull the trasfercase pan and see whats broke, if anything. pull off the pto cover too and check the big nut
     
    70cj5134f likes this.
  10. Feb 4, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    Just now done the t case in N. Yes it now spins free!
    When it does stop, it's silent, no clunk or ping, just stops as if drag ,or a plastic wedge was driven between shafts? No ratchet sound, no sound at all?
    So by freeing up, with t case in N, does that mean the problem is in the tcase?
    Ps-ok to drive with rear shaft out, and snug nuts on the drum???
    Have chores to do, and load of wood in back to unload?
     
  11. Feb 4, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    So this would be the correct next step?
    Remove PTO cover and bottom pan?
     
  12. Feb 4, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Messages:
    522
    Actually, kind of makes me think transmission. T-case in neutral, only things not spinning in there is the intermediate shaft...just needle bearings on a shaft, tough to see how that would spin one direction, but bind in the other? At present, I am leaning toward an end-play issue in your transmission between input and main shaft. Due to the helical cut gears, thrust on the main shaft moves forward or aft depending on direction of rotation. If the input shaft and main shaft get crammed together (due to too much movement/end-play), they will bind. Again, it would be more prominent in one direction (reverse in this case it seems), but could also explain the lurching you have experienced.

    I would start by pulling the PTO cover on the t-case, grab the bull gear in there and see if there is any in-out movement. There shouldn't be. If that seems tight, next I would pull the transmission shift tower and see if there is any front to back movement in the input shaft. Shouldn't be any noticeable movement there either.

    If that all checks out, you could check the intermediate gear/shaft in the t-case. If the bearings were bad in there though, it would be quite noisy.
     
  13. Feb 4, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    Ok, leaving to do today's chores, rear shaft out, in 4wd low.
    I've unloaded half the wood in back,
    Report back after!
     
  14. Feb 4, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    Test drive #1, in front wheel drive( rear driveshaft removed) it acts kinda normal,( surprising how well it goes in only front wheel drive), no i Use, shifts through all gears, we seal to esa, no problems.
    Rode 20-30 min, kinda got to where I was trying to get stuck, didn't work, kept on pulling.
    Felt loose in rear bit that's to be expected.
    Going to test drive, #2, again and c if anythig strange happens?
    Did not strain, or lock up in reverse this time?
    I'll give a little more hell, this test , I'd like to c if it right the first time?
    Guess it might be a good idea to go through the T90, and the 18, before I put the 3.7 in.
    Found a few similar problems on other forums but no one had a definite solution?
    Just my luck, seems like I'm always the Ginnie pig? ( kinda fun sometimes).
    And with rear shaft out, it drives normal.
    Next remove PTO and bottom pan? And look!
    Thanks to all!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  15. Feb 4, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,419
    When you say "rock the drum" do you mean as in rotation?
     
  16. Feb 4, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,419
    Pull the cover off of the rear differential before you do anything else. I wonder if the spider gears are messed up?
     
    47v6 and wheelie like this.
  17. Feb 4, 2019
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist Sponsor

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    4,822
    Lincoln locker finally broke.:D
     
    Glenn and 47v6 like this.
  18. Feb 4, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,939
    Are you sure its not your rear brake drums locking up solid in reverse? If the springs (or something similar) came loose, they could wedge between the shoe and drum. Depending on how it wedges, it may allow free rotation one direction, but cams in to lock the other direction.
    I recently had a brake shoe shed its lining on my VW Vanagon and it did this exact same thing, only opposite your situation. The drum was free spinning in reverse, but in about 1/8th revolution forward would lock solid.
    -Donny
     
    47v6 likes this.
  19. Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    With the rear shaft out, no nuts on the yoke,try to spin reverse,it turns bout 1/8 turn,
    Then binds as if the shoes were stopping it, but I can rock the drum top to bottom,
    And c the shoes through the holes in drum are not touching the drum. Again it's a silent stop,no noise, just gets stoped.
     
  20. Feb 5, 2019
    70cj5134f

    70cj5134f Member

    East Tn
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    645
    With the rear shaft out, the problem goes away.
    On stands, I can spin the rear tires either way with little effort. No noise or rough spots.
     

Share This Page

New Posts