If Not A Bridgeport.......

Wow. Thanks again guys. Lots to look at and check when I start looking. I'll have to take a list with me and take my time looking. I'm getting a bit excited about making this happen. Hope I can. Started edging the wife into it and she didn't give me a bunch of crap yet so, I got that goin' for me.

How about moving one of these things. I'm reading that they typically go around 2000-2500 lbs. I understand some heavy equipment will be needed but, is there a particular to lift the machine? I'm guessing I'd want to lift it from underneath. Any other way I can imagine would potentially damage vital parts of the machine.

 

Wear is objective based on who is looking at it..............if a repeatable tenth .0001 is what your shooting for then it means allot. Otherwise a DRO will get you within .0015 pretty easy.

You need to educate yourself over time to what your looking for.........Look around and look at various machines........and continue to read and do research.
With some basic accumulated knowledge you will be more comfortable each time you look at a different machine.............I looked for a few years and many machines before I bought the one I have from machinery dealer..........First Impression as to table top condition , mistakenly drilled holes , end mill gouges, frosting on the ways , how smooth the tables moves , ETC; will give you a brief quick history as to the machines prior life...........

As Mike mentioned above............you can tighten up the table some by adjusting the gibs, or take a little play out of the table movement by adjusting the feed screw nut...........I only replaced my feed screw & nut due to the old bulky Bridgeport power feed vs the new Servo power Feed had a different setup length................

How the motor runs , how the table moves, if the quill feed works and any other features it has should be working properly......Ask the owner to see it in operation milling some steel................

 

Usually a fork lift at either end on a pallet then to a low trailer..........if you have overhead equipment the machine can be lifted from above using straps. Getting it in the proper place inside your shop may be a bigger task...........you'll need a decent 220 outlet nearby that should be rated at 40-50 amps and a phase converter unless it came with one.

 

When I picked it up I had the guy load it into a rented Uhaul trailer with his broken under rated forklift. It was kind of scary and I was happy no one got hurt or destroyed.

I moved mine into my basement myself. To do that I had to use an engine hoist to take it apart. First the head and motor, then the ram, then the table and finally the knee. It was a 2 day process. I have a pallet jack to help in the process. I built a wooden gantry to lower the parts down the 5 steps and onto the pallet jack to roll the parts into my shop. I then assembled it all down there with an engine hoist.

If you are not going elevation height change, you can use pipes to move it anywhere you want with long pry bars. It only weighs 2000~2200 lbs so its not too bad on level concrete and its a one person job if you think about what you want to do.

I guess I should have taken pictures. It wasn't hard, just a lot to do.

 

I used a hoist ring on the Rams lift hole.
Lower the table, rotate the head until the drawbar is pointing down . Put a block of wood on the table and raise it till it contacts the bottom of head as it is sitting now. Make sure the table is centered. Slide the ram forward to the center, install hoist ring on ram casting, lift with a hook, chain or strap from this lift ring, if done right they lift straight up. I loaded mine over the side of a 14' trailer set it down.
Carried it in my garage with a skid steer the same way, set it on pipes in the garage and rolled it into place.

Like this only with a strap.
This is actually how your suppose to lift a Bridgeport .

 

Generally for moving a Bridgeport, I wrap a heavy sling around the horizontal ram, after the main head is layed over and all locks snugged down tight. Lower the knee and center the table, and move the table in as far as it goes.
If you are setting the machine on a metal deck trailer (like a car hauler), lay down plywood. This keeps thing from wanting to shift while under way. Use a minimum of 2" ratchet straps to tie it down.
I have picked them up from above using a forklift, and have seen a forklift pick them up directly under ram (using wood blocks) with a fork on either overhang.
I have unloaded under a large tree with a sling and chainfall. Once the machine is on hard pavement, I use several 3/4" pipes as rollers and lever it along with a large prybar.
I can only imagine what Chris went through to get one of these in a basement. At least gravity was working in his favor!
-Donny

 

Getting things out is a whole nother story! I seriously have thought about jack hammering out my stairs and just making it a concrete pit with either a hydraulic scissor lift or a permanent gantry and removable stairs. Its the only way to get stuff out by myself. Just getting the assembled 225 out was really difficult. I needed up manhandling it out on a strapped appliance dolly on a ramp. I just am not as strong as I used to be.

All this information in this thread is awesome.

 

Here is the VFD that runs my mill, it was around $250 but Teco a division of Westinghouse makes some that are about $175.
They take 220v single phase and turn into 220v 3 phase. They also give you ramped start up and stop, variable speed by changing the herz rating, dynamic braking and other features.
This thing weighs about 2 lbs and just screws on the wall.

 

I don't know much about VFDs. How big of a 3 phase motor will these run? I have a surface grinder with a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor. My rotary converter is only rated to 5 hp which handles the rest of my machines.
-Donny

 

How big of a damn surface grinder do you have?
A 7.5hp motor should be on a 36"x24" machine.
Heck ours only has a 5hp.
They make them that big but after 3-5hp they start getting expensive.
What kind of grinder do you have?

 

turn on some of your other machines and it could even out and run the bigger motor. I have read how that works provided you have the amps out the wall. If you're running just one machine a VFD is definitely the way to go, or if you need variable speed or dynamic braking programmed in. VFD's are really amazing magic things. Dynamic braking systems used to be very expensive on their own and did nothing else. Mine broke on my 16" radial arm saw. Replacing it was cost prohibitive. Spinning to a stop on its own without the brake was kind of scary.

 

Rotary phase converters are not intended to run anything greater than there motor plate. The motors tend to run hot and can burn **** out. You just need a bigger rotary converter.
I still can't believe you have a surface grinder with a 7.5 hp motor unless it's a big wet grinder. Most surface grinders aren't bigger than a 1.5 hp.

 

I have a machinist friend that has his whole home shop...2-CNC Bridgeport's, Leblond lathe, Surface grinders, EDM ETC; being fed 3-phase power using a single 7 or 10 hp 3 phase motor as a converter..........honestly I have no Idea how it works......the 3-phase motor is outside covered up and has a standard 3 belt pulley on it............he wraps a rope around it , hits the power , pulls the rope turning the armature over and the motor takes off idling along.........as long as it's running he has 3 phase to feed his shop needs..........the motor has a distinctive hum while running which you notice when you pull up to his shop..........a sure indicator that he is inside. Still in service after many decades.

 

They use the 3rd leg of the 3 phase starter motor to generate the missing leg for the motors your using. If you have a 10hp starter motor you can run machine combinations up to 10hp. Milling machines generally don't need 3phase to run only to start but it makes the motors run hot. Most large lathes and grinder motors will need the 3phase all the time. A static phase converter will generate the 3rd leg for starting the mill and then drop off and the machine will continue to run on 220 single phase.

 

I stand corrected. I just went down to the shop to get the specs. The main motor is 5.5 hp, 3 ph, with an accessory powered rotary table at 1 hp. The rotary table is only used for blanchard grinding flywheels and rotors, so is not used all the time. The machine is a Peterson RG 300/900, made in Italy. It has a 12" segmented stone head with a flycutter insert, and the machine can be used wet or dry. It has a 36" power travel bed.
The base machine draws 16.7 amps at 220v/3ph, and I have a 220v/1 ph 50 amp 4 wire receptical. I run my Baldor 5 hp rotary converter off another 50 amp receptical for the other machines.
Is a VFD a viable devise to run this thing, or do I need to stick with the (larger) rotary converter? Can I get away with my 5 hp converter if I take shallow cuts and don't load the machine much?
This is the only machine I don't have running yet (along with my new-to-me Bridgeport that is not in its final location).
I also have a Clausing 14-40 lathe, a Quick Way head shop, QW boring bar, and a QW hone.
I'm still setting things up in a new shop addition behind the garage.
-Donny

 

I started with an "Index" mill, they are about 80% the size and 50% the weight of a Bridgeport. Cute little knee mill, very popular on battleships so they are around. They use funny B+S collets that aren't bad used but expensive new. For many years I owned a "Sharp" Bridgeport clone, that machine made good parts and just would not die. I even dropped it 4' during a shop move, replaced a few parts and put it back in service.

IF you have the room for a larger machine than a Bridgeport, there are tons (literally) of really excellent machines being practically given away.
Gorton, Index, B+S and many more made nice machines with power feeds on all axis but they tend to weigh in at 4000lbs + so nobody has the space for such a big lump in their garage. It's a pity because some of those machines really make a Bridgeport look like some dinky thing from Enco by comparison.

Oh, you can try this angle on the spouse (etc.): these machines never loose any value, buy a Bridgeport and use it for a decade and it's still worth what you paid.

 

Always interested to improve my english, I have found this: maybe it is a too big entreprise, but nothing is impossible...

Bridgeport VMC 760 - 20 CNC Mill - Blue Diamond Machine Tools

 

If you buy good quality machinery in good condition..........I have found over time , It will always be worth more than you paid for it...........

I wish I had more room here at the house , and 3 phase power nearby........one add on shop was all the zoning would allow. Years back the Auction circuit here in Cally on quality hardly used equipment was quite amazing..........still have everything I bought , but just wished I would have not had to pass up screaming deals on 3 axis CNC turning centers or a 50 ton 4 ft brake......................... Maybe in another life!

 

If you buy a big enough machine you can sleep in the work envelope and when your spouse sees it, you'll have to!
I had a big machining center, oh, not *that* big a 10' cube weighing 16000lbs, with some parts hanging out of that, got it for a song. If you are willing to take on an old CNC there are some crazy good deals out there.