I came up with a new tool/jig of sorts

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by Mark W., Jun 27, 2005.

  1. Jun 27, 2005
    Mark W.

    Mark W. Banned

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    For those of you nice people who welcomed me to the group the other day you will remeber I am working on a 48 2A body ona 57 CJ-5 frame. I am in the process of doing the engineering to shorten the CJ-5 Frame so it will properly fit the 2A tub.

    In order to do this I am cutting approx 2.5-3" off the back of the frame. This will cause me to have to move the rear shackle hangers forward (cause there won't be no frame out there any more LOL)

    This will then require that my rear springs be 2A springs. (I'm keeping the stock 5 frame and spring setup in the front) 2A springs are shorter then CJ5 rear springs. I needed a way to locate the hangers.

    SO today It rained it rained a lot. And if you are a Asphault Dump truck driver that means you have the day off! SO with that little bonus I started at 8:00 calling the only local Jeep junk yard I know of (only about 50minutes away) Never been there before heard good and bad things about the owner (who turned out to be a rather nice guy I found out)

    Any way I went there to take measurements off of a couple of 2A frames to get a good average of the spacing along the rails of the hangers. (the diagonal measurements in the manual just wern't going to cut it)

    He had a nice looking 46 sitting where I could easily get at it and with the help of his nice dog I crawled under and took measurements. I then waded through the sea of briars and should hieght grass and weeds to a stack of a half dozen frames some MP's some 2A and took a few more measurements.

    What is it about these places if they bought a weed wacker and a couple gallons of gas their inventory would triple!!!!! I have photo's I'll post in a bit.

    After a nice talk with the guy about what I'm doing and some history stuff. I left. Not sure if he'll have much I need since my Jeep is so complete (maybe a new flywheel if mine was to damaged by the mouse urine rusting the mating surface, got to talk with my machinest to be sure)

    BUT at any rate If I need it he will most likely have it. It won't be real pretty but I can always change that.



    OH I was going to tell you about a new tool/fixture/jig thingy I came up with..



    OK since I am not moving the front hangers I can use those as my referance points for the position of the new hangers. I was standing there looking at my frame (it's up on the special saw horses I made Sunday for just this job) And it accured to me If I take 2 long pieces of 1/8-1/4 X 1" bar stock and carefully clamp them together then layout and mark the distance from the front spring hanger to the rear spring hanger (in my case exactly 41") And I drill two 1/2"D holes 41" apart on center. I can use them just like a shackle to span from the front hanger to the back and with a nice 1/2 bolt throw the holes I can swing the new hanger in place against the bottom of the frame clamp it and drill new bolt holes then by tapping the new rear hanger once it's in place backwards until the bolt and long bar stock becomes tight. I should be able to get both sides exactly square to the front.

    And then by doing the same thing locate the rear shackle hangers. This should in theory end up with a square front to rear axle location and no crabbing.


    I'm planning on using Grade 8 3/8" NF Bolts and Nuts in place of the rivets along with full lenght welds between the new hangers and the frames.

    I will also be boxing the frame for about 8" centered on the new rear spring hangers. The whole rear section between the rear cross member (rear bumper) and the cross member over the axle will also be boxed.

    I have included a simple drawing on my little jig to make all my ramblings easier to under stand.


    OH one other thing I saw under that nice 46 he had was some airbag coil helper springs Next time down there I'll have to ask about those that would be nice to have for the towing I'll be doing.


    Mark W.

    Chug A Lug
     
  2. Jun 27, 2005
    Mark W.

    Mark W. Banned

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    Sorry guys and gals I thought I was in the flatty tech section althought this can work on any spring relocation

    Mark W.
     
  3. Jun 28, 2005
    ljspop

    ljspop Lurking Bronco Dude Sponsor

    San Diego, CA
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    You're there now. :D

    Are you going to do diagonal measurements to ensure your reference points are correct? Just a thought. It sounds like a solid plan to me tho.

    My M38 came partially boxed and I've always been a bit concerned about the fatigue points of the transition from boxed to not. Any thoughts of boxing the whole thing? Just wondering what you're thoughts are on that or what you've heard/experienced.
     
  4. Jun 28, 2005
    Mark W.

    Mark W. Banned

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    Yes I will double check to make sure everything is totally square before welding. The jig is just to get me super close and to make positioning the hangers easier working alone.

    As to boxing the whole frame I have read that it removes to much flex in the frame and if you get crossed up you can really twist things if there is no give. The rear section and the front horns and right where the hangers are is the only place I'm going to do it. I'm not worried about those places since the new front bumper and rear cross member will be bolted in place not welded so they will retain the ability to flex slightly if I get real twisted.

    I'm also going to be boxing about 1/4" in from the edge of the frame so that there is no weld end along an edge to cause a flex point.

    I have a big advantage with this in that one of my buddies knows everything about welding. He manages an Airgas store and has even run an Acetaline plant he has a whole bunch of certifications and the neatest metal burning things you ever seen! He'll be doing all my welding.

    I spent 14 years as a custom knifemaker making up to $1200.00 hand made knifes so metal fabrication is something I tend to do at the 1/1000th" level Brian says he loves doing welding for me cause everything almost sticks to gether before he welds as the fits are so close. After making 3 blade jack knives 3/8" thick fabing up a tire rack is easy.

    Well it will be if I ever stop engineering it! that is a curse of 30+ years of model airplane building along with the Knifemaking..

    And before anyone asks I NO LONGER MAKE KNIVES so please don't ask. It was fun while it lasted it was always a business and when I stopped I stopped.

    Later, Mark W.
     
  5. Jun 28, 2005
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member Sponsor

    Huntingdon PA
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    Ah Mark, what makes you think a bunch of Jeep guys would be interested in knives??

    :twisted:

    Somehow it goes together ;) :D

    But OK... we understand...
    That's why many of us don't go into the Jeep repair/fab business. It would take the fun out of it, and it would become a job... :rofl:

    Looks like a good plan on the bracket locator tool. Take some pics as it comes together
     
  6. Jun 28, 2005
    Gump

    Gump Old Timer

    Bethel, CT
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  7. Jun 28, 2005
    Mark W.

    Mark W. Banned

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    Interestingly enough these guys are from just up the raod in fact the wife almost drives past the address on the way to work.


    But it appears as if the directions given are for their longer then normal springs and I don't see where they give any stock dimensions.

    But that's for the site interesting reading about a different spring imporovement then I have seen before.


    Mark W.
     
  8. Jun 28, 2005
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member Sponsor

    Falcon, CO
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    Mark - if interested I have a set of the Holbrooks on my '51. I have not had a chance to realy wheel with them yet, but I can sure tell a difference just running around with them.

    FWIW - I put a '46 on a 71 frame and running gear. Only mods were to the body mounting points as I moved the body slightly rearword. This gave a little extra room in the front that made the Saginaw conversion much easier.
     

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