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Howell Odd Fire V6 Fuel Injection Kit Install

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Norcal69, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. Sep 3, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

    Louisville, Ky
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    I so much wanted a "plug and play" system. I have a stock engine, 60 over on cylinders. Was going to do something this winter. I guess start looking elsewhere?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  2. Sep 3, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I think with something like this you should get a live person on the phone and follow up emails for documentation and mutual understanding. Too many variations that might not seem important but make a difference. Affordable fuel injection needed to know my cam specs before even moving forward, they're not worried about pistons or compression nearly as much as the cam.
     
  3. Sep 3, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    90 over? Does it run warm?
     
  4. Sep 3, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    sorry for the side track - but yes, 90 over caught my attention as well (this is a 225?) - less about it running warm as 90 over is just 30 over on a 231 - and more about where did you find piston and rings....when I had mine rebuilt a few years ago, it sounded like 60 over is all that is supported in terms of parts these days....
     
  5. Sep 3, 2020
    jwinsley

    jwinsley Windblown

    Chattanooga
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    Relatively simple. The magnet is in the pickup so it just triggers off steel. The plate the pickup is mounted on sits on top of the fuel pump blockoff plate and uses same bolt holes. For the guy who said he didnt have any holes in the dampener someone in one thread said he had magnets epoxied on to the outer edge of the dampener for the pickup.
     

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  6. Sep 4, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

    Louisville, Ky
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    Thinking about it now it was 60 over
     
  7. Sep 4, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I think that this is what is preventing me from a plug and play install. I do not know the internal specs of my engine. The jeep came with a 500 cfm edelbrock carb, offy intake and headers on it. I only knew that the engine had been rebuilt at some point.
    It has 20 psi of oil pressure at hot idle, good compression, and only pulls 15-16" of vacuum.
    I can only assume that it has something other than the normal upgrade cam in it.
    When I ordered the system I gave Howell all the information I could...... :shrug:
     
  8. Sep 4, 2020
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
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    Like others, I really appreciate you chronicling your efforts on here.
    My fear is these engines are so old at this point with so many prior owners, who knows what internal changes have been made to cam, etc without rebuilding it. I guess that is not the makers of the FI system's problem either, but has to be a common occurrence.
    Hopefully they will put the effort in to make you a happy customer since the market for oddfire v6 fuel injection is pretty small. Then I can come along and copy your homework after you put in all the effort/frustration....like I usually do on this site.
     
    truckee4x4 likes this.
  9. Sep 4, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I do see the issue of not knowing exactly what is in your engine as a stumbling block for the Howell systems and frankly any that rely on a 'flash tune'. When I was looking, I didn't want to fight with a tune table. While I have helped several friends do this with Holley systems, I just don't have the expertise to do that.

    I will say that systems like the EZ-EFI, FiTech and other 'self tuning' have some qwerks - they do seem to be pretty good at what they do. Mine took a bit to 'learn' when I first put it on, but can honestly say it has just gotten better the more I've run them and over the various situations I've encountered. The first trip up Taylor Pass was a bit rough at times, but by the third day of running trails in the area, I couldn't tell the fuel system was new and learning.

    I guess the best option to make the Howell system viable is to have multiple folks run them and give the feedback to them so they can continue to learn tunes. I know they have to have TONS of other engine setups with multiple feedback instances on the more modern/popular engines. Our little 225/231s are just not going to carry those kinds of feedback numbers in general for them.
     
    45es likes this.
  10. Sep 4, 2020
    SoCalNickG

    SoCalNickG Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Whittier, CA.
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    Way back when I was 20 yrs old (1975), I had a 231 odd fire that I put into my CJ-5. When I was building the engine Joe at the parts store said he could get pistons that were up to 120 over. I don't know if the 225s have cylinder walls that thick. FWIW I went with 60 over and didn't have any overheating issues using the 4 cyl radiator. I was young and dumb and had a 'make what I got work' mentality.
     
  11. Sep 4, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    X2.
    I picked up an ALDL scan cable and will hopefully be able to do some data logging this weekend. This should give Howell the info needed to burn a chip that suits my engine.

    It should be noted...... Since I upped the fuel pressure last Sunday, the Jeep does run to my satisfaction, idle is a tick higher than I like and fluctuates a bit.....
    Most guys on this forum would be tickled Pink if their carb setups ran this good and got them 17+ mpg. My racing background makes me anal about stuff.....
    Once I was able to get through to Howell that the tune was incorrect for my engine specifics, Troy seemed happy to make a new one at no cost.
    The scan cable connected to a lap top works the same way as the Snap On scanner in my videos....... except it stores the data for viewing when the engine is not running.

    This system seemed complicated at first..... but the more I work with it I realize that is it very simple. Once it is Ironed out it will be trouble free and inexpensive to repair. We put a ton of miles on early 90's chevy pickups back in the day with very little TBI problems..... This will be the same way eventually.

    The numbers and abbreviations that come with the TBI systems are no more complicated or difficult to comprehend than Timing, Vacuum, Jet sizes ect...... Its all the same stuff as a carb setup.... just different terminology.

    Now that I have gotten personal with the process I feel like the next one I do will be a piece of cake.
    1) Bolt on TBI system
    2) Fire engine and check for vacuum leaks
    3) Test drive twice (2 heat cycles) and note any issues
    4) Hook to scanner or scancable/ laptop to verify data is acceptable
    5) If needed give data to Howell for assesment and/or reprogramming

    When my tune is ironed out.... I would be happy to lend the scan cable to other members who would like to go the Howell TBI route. :beer:
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  12. Sep 4, 2020
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    I dont know how to cut a paste the link I posted here yrs ago ... search
    my buddys dauntless on tbi
    he used a crank trigger
     
  13. Sep 6, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Finally everything came in for my data logging setup. It took a little while to get the drivers and baud rate figured out.... my laptop battery died on the drive..... :(
    Here is a short video from that drive.

     
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  14. Sep 7, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I'll be doing some more data logging this afternoon.
    In the video I posted above I am cruising down the road at 1900-2000 rpm. The computer is reading a bounce between 1500 and the 1900-2000 range but the engine is running smooth. Is the fluctuation indicative of the uneven odd fire tach signal?
    My guess is that Howell has the idle set in the computer at 850 rpm to smooth out the idle. :shrug:
     
  15. Sep 7, 2020
    Mjragan

    Mjragan Member

    socal-Simi Valley
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    That rpm signal is a problem, does the tach signal wire go from the hei directly into the Ecm? The Ecm fires the injectors based on the tach signal if the signal into the Ecm is erratic it will affect the Ecm's ability to accurately control the fuel mixture.
     
  16. Sep 7, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    As far as I know it goes through a filter and then to the ECM.
     
  17. Sep 7, 2020
    Mjragan

    Mjragan Member

    socal-Simi Valley
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    I'm curious about what Howell will say about the rpm signal, I made a couple filters for mine before I found the right one.
     
  18. Sep 7, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I’m going to call them tomorrow and see if the new chip shipped yet. I walk ask about the bouncing rpm.

    I will also post screen shots from my data logging in the morning. My results from the first run were a tad rich across the board. I reduced the fuel pressure by 1/2 turn and took it back out. There are definitely some lean spots now, hesitating under hard load and Jeep runs hot again. Data log showed pretty much same as what I felt.
     
  19. Sep 8, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

    Louisville, Ky
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    Another I do not know much about this question from me.

    If the tach signal is picked up from # 1 cylinder. How does the ECM know when the other cylinders fire. Is this programmed into the ECM?
     
  20. Sep 8, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I thought the signal is sent for each cylinder and the tachometer or pcm has to do the calculations.
     
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