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holbrook and soa..

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Phalanxx, May 5, 2010.

  1. May 5, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    363
    anyone running this combo?
    i am thinking i just want to make my jeep into a moderate-serious trail rig and considering options. i also found some tera-flex shackels for it and considering throwing them on the front.
    i bought the holbrook last year and never got to put em on. i want to run some 36-37's or so and need room. i will be putting rock fenders in the front and cutting the rear out for flex and whatnot.
    but, is the holbrook and teraflex too much for the front?

    its all in thought right now, but i am kicking around the idea. i will need a sway bar deffinately. i found a company that makes high steering with heim joints...supposed to be able to hold 40,000 lbs on the tie rods and whatnot...i think i would like that so i dont break tie rod ends...very often. =)

    i swear, all you guys on here are just so far above my mechanical skills its pathetic. i try to do some research and either the thread gets slightly hijacked, or it goes way over my head as soon as people like adam or nick start in..lol. its good though, we have experts..but do we have some "advanced users" who can "dumb things down" for me? =)

    like "axels for dummies"...i understand SF and FF, but there is a whole lot more that you guys talk about thats flies right over my head.

    being in iraq again, i cant just tear it apart and count splines. =\

    side note- anyone have descent axels for sale? i want them bullet proof and dont mind paying more for piece of mind. =) v6/420/d18 i need offset to fit..=)

    peace people....only 8 mortar attacks and 1 rocket since being here..the army doesnt call it "hot"...but its damn sure "spicy" to me...
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  2. May 5, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    363
    here is a link to those heim joints. and the high steering. pretty neet setup i think.
    what do you guys think?
    http://www.jeepxtremes.com/
     
  3. May 5, 2010
    Fisherman

    Fisherman Member

    Snohomish Washington
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    64
    I'm pretty sure I read on Holbrooks website they don't recommend using their springs in soa applications. You could use modified rear wrangler leafs or some other aftermarket soa leafs and sell the hollbrooks. That should be a nice combo for drivetrain. Stay safe and thanks for your Service.
     
  4. May 5, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
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    yer right..i remember that now. well, back to a smaller tire.
    33's wont be too bad i guess. now, to figure out which axles i have so i will know what to order. i think the teraflex and holrooks would make a wicked flex. i am digging the idea of the smoother ride, cause my dad had heavy duty rear springs for hauling wood and i felt every ant i ran over..
     
  5. May 5, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    I run the Holbrooks - a real no-no on the SOA with those. I do feel that with a body lift and the right axles (in my mind - D44 for anything larger than 33s) you could run 35 - 36 just fine.

    I also do not recommend the teraflex shackles.

    Just MOP - YMMV - all other disclaimers apply....

    If you decide your set on the SOA and such, PM me about the Holbrooks.
     
  6. May 5, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    363
    not set on anything right now. i am doing research, but SOA is out.

    in your opinion, whats wrong with the tera shackles? i havent heard anything bad about them...havent heard anything good either except i see jeeps all twisted up who are running them. deffinately increased articulation. do they break?
    if i could find a nice set of 44's, i would have someone bullet proof them for me and send them to collins when i restore my jeep. the less they have to do, the less it costs me. $40 bux an hour for a friend (and case-o-beer when its finished) is a whole lot cheeper than their $80 per hour and not getting it right...i dont have to pay overhead...

    do you think chrome moly or titanium/kryptonite blend axles on a dana 30 would hold 35's or is that asking alot? from what i have hear, 33's are safe, but anything more is pushing it...even with bullet proofing.

    body lift..i cannot find ANYTHING for the 68. just factory. mind u, i have never taken them apart, so i dont know if the kits will interchange or not. i would love a 1-2" body lift along with the springs. i picked up a 2" shackel which will give 1" lift the said, along with the springs, thats 4" (claimed). i think that with 33"s and a 2" body lift would give lot's-o-room for tera-flexin up and down (assuming there isnt anything wrong with them).

    also, i saw that cj5 225/420/d18 thats tearing up the 4x4 pro rock scene. i would have never guessed that they could compete on that level. i was shocked to see i have all the same running gear as he does. so that means to me, its a sound platform and i just need to learn to drive it and what it can do. no need for the grand national turbo motor i was going to put in it.
    well..i could put it in still. >=)
    just for conversational topic and passing power (and fuel injection). hmm..odd fire or even turbo..hmm. odd fire with 470 truck avenger or fuel injected turbo...
    lol....it would be REALLY fun in the mud!
     
  7. May 5, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    363
    eh, i havent read anything good about the revolvers.
    i think i will just stick to the holbrooks. you guys are all in unison on running them, s thats good for me.
     
  8. May 5, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    The teras have a history of twist and snap, they also tend to mess with the alignment of parts (esp the front end). I have seen to many with issues to run them on any of my rigs. Watch the use of shackle lifts as they will mess with your axle angles and thus steering and drive line snappage.

    I really think your pushing it with hard rocks and HP going with 35's and a D30 no matter what you do to the axles. The knuckles and joints just don't seem to handle it. Remember, this is based on the way I and my friends run things. Some folks will disagree.

    A '68 is easy to put a body lift on - just have to consider pedals and changes to steering. I am putting a '49 body on a '63 frame now. We have redone the body mounts on the frame to give it a 2" lift. Pedals will go swinging, Steering is going Saginaw with an Ididit or Flaming River column.

    As to power - look at the builds section - I am installing FI on a 225 (even got some done last night) with a bolt on system. This is running on my '51 with an SM465, D18, OD, 4.88s, D30 and OX, Disk front with D44 FF OX in back.
     
  9. May 5, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    363
    alright, flex shackles are out for sure!
    i have seen the throttle body FI installed on the oddfire, but i like smooth idle and cruising power. i almost was killed when i tried to pass a slower moving vehicle once in my jeep. my dad didnt have a good carb on it and it fell on its face while i was in the left lane. i managed to get around the vehicle, but i need to have the power under foot, even if i dont use it. we werent going that fast, but it still messed up. plus the distributor was rounded and the points werent opening and closing right. i have HEI now..so, all in all, i should have plenty of power.
    now, i built the 231 up, punched it .030, put the summit pistons (9.6:1 with the oddifre heads prolly 9.2 with even fire) in it, a comp 260 with the even fire heads, and they offenhauser dual port intake. i had it running and it sounded mean, but i shut it down because it didnt build oil pressure. i guess i didnt put enough vaseline in it. i went to iraq and let it sit and all the fluids leaked into the oil pan, so i ripped it apart again when i came home. i have it in long block form sitting at home. it "should" run like a scalded dawg from what i have been told, but i am still leary of it.
    it had a t-14 with 31's and 3.73's, which is a little high gear for those tires, plus with the carb setup? it might just have been the 7.8:1 compression/carb/stock cam/high gears that made it fall on its face and not the 3.8 itself. now its built pretty tight with the holley 470 truck avenger and rhodes lifters. i bought the dual port intake for the 4bbl, so i would want to run that instead of FI...it would be a waste of $700..plus, i ported it to match the tall port heads (port job looks funny, but it fits each intake runner..fat on top, skinny on bottom). it would prolly be cheeper to just get the 3.8 engine from a mechanic in my home town ($100) and bore it to the new piston setup i have on the 3.8 turbo and build that then it would be to buy a complete FI setup and new intake. i have everything but the block... more power, better idle, smoother in general. doesnt have the large flywheel, but i am going with a gear level from a 10 speed to hold the throttle at 1k rpm when crawling anyway so the point is moot. i dont know..debating.
    hell, i could just throw my buick 350 in it and call it a day. so many options, so many miles home...lol

    i bought the steering conversion from herm tillman. it uses the bronco II power steering box and i think a stock steering column, but if not, itll give me reason to buy a tilt from flaming river... >=)

    it would be nice to find a 44 front, but i can deal with the 30 and disk brakes. i will prolly set the rear for 11". those heim joints i mention earlier are for racing. the company makes a setup for putting 1 ton tie rods on a jeep. he said the heim joints are about the same strength, but feel better on the road. illegal, but who cares...

    i am going with the electracs or the ected's front and rear. i like the thought of flipping a switch like my brother does in his 06 rubicon.

    where do you find the body lift kit? or do you just stick home made pieces in it? someone told me they just stuck chunks of rubber under the body one time, its been a while. i searched all over the web looking for body lift kits and found nothing. and where do you find swingin pedals? are they on a particular model? are they in a kit or do you just made them yourself? i am very curious..fabricating is above my skill set when it comes to jeeps and whatnot.
    when i get back and build my house and hydroponics garden, i might try to find a 4x4 shop like herms place and go volunteer there. the knowledge is well worth the free labor. i think i will be the one making out. i worked in a machine shop for almost a year, so i can spin a lathe (verticle and horizontal), but thats about it. i went the electronics route in the navy...i can jam your cell phone...but cant rework a dana 30..lol
     
  10. May 6, 2010
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,538
    Stay away from thet heim joint steering. Besides being waaaaay over priced, heim joints don't hold up well for steering. They are not designed to be used that way. I just got rid of my heim joint setup, went back to TRE's.
     
  11. May 6, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    363
    reeeeaaally? guy told me on the phone they were as strong as 1 ton tre's.
    maybe i will get the 1 ton for the dana 30 setup he has..they are supposed to be really tough. good thing i brought all this up before i bought em...the shackles and the joints (heim joints)...=)

    i have decided to stick with the oddfire. it should be good. close to 300 ft lbs and 200-220 or so horses according to what i have seen and read. if that doesnt move that small jeep it doesnt need to be moved.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  12. May 6, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
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    363
    i remembered, the holbrook gives about a 3 1/2 inch lift, i bought 1" lift shackles to make it an even 4" lift over all (1" at one side of the shackle makes 1/2" total..or close enough)

    that shouldnt be too bad though, right?
     
  13. May 6, 2010
    jhuey

    jhuey Michigan Jeeper!

    Indian River...
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    415
    On my '64 I'm running the Holbrook springs, Herms saginaw upgrade, and a home made body lift, 35" SS narrow track tires, 231 OF with 390 cfm Holley DUI hei ignition. Pretty much stock axles and trans/xfer case. I don't use the Jeep for a DD but a Northern Michigan trail rig. If I have to travel more than fifty miles I trailer it. It's a little mountain goat. It out climbs my friends moderate built TJ's. I will be upgrading the axles when I can afford it. When I installed the steering I used an older DJ5 Postal steering wheel and shaft, I wanted a stock looking so I kept the bus wheel.
    [​IMG]
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  14. May 6, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
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    363
    that is one SWEET ride!!!!!!!!!

    thats the look i want right there, except for different tires! beautiful joe!
    how does it ride? steer? stop?

    i cant even begin to tell you the drool factor of this jeep it. how high is your body lift? how did you do the pedals? swinging or still through the floor? that is smokin. did u paint it or take it somewhere?

    is that a dana 27 like mine? you can run 3's with it? i havent put my d30 in yet. i have seen disks for this, but my 27 leaks all over the place. i dislike that, plus i wanted the ujoints and better turning raius so i picked up a 30.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  15. May 6, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,466
    Just to help clear the FI up. It goes on a square bore 4bbl intake (Offy or I have a Kenne Bell) and replaces the carb, but looks like one. I am replacing the TA470 on mine with the Powerjection III setup. I am going with it so the wife does not have to learn to do the 3 pedal shuffle while wheeling and it just runs.

    The 260 grind on your cam will give you a bit more top end power, where as the 252 keeps it down low.

    Body lift is done with everything from raising the body mount points (what I am currently doing) or adding AL pucks or cutting poly from boat rollers (done that in the past). It's your choice on how to do it.
     
  16. May 6, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
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    363
    the offenhauser dual port is like a dual plane, but seperates the front and back, not left and right. you run on the front barrels through small intake runners durring low throttle/rpm situations and when you open the rear barrels up, they are large to shove air down the throat. i need the 4bbl seperation that no throttle body i am aware of provised. they all open as one.

    the 260 is a mid power cam, i agree..thats where (in theory) the rhodes lifters come in. they dont open all the way until you get to around 3000 rpm, by then, you are feeling the cam. rhodes claims they reduce lift on the cam a descent ammount in lower rpm. like it would go below a 252h cam at 1k rpm, then open up to a 252h at 3k, then 260h at 3k or above.
    thats the theory anyway. we are about to find out soon enough. i sent an email to go ahead and take the odd fire to the mechanic who specializes in them (he used to race em back in the day). we shall see. i will have someone take it to a dyno somewhere.
     
  17. May 6, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    That is true and I have run both and a single plane right now. The Powerjection is closed loop and controls the full fuel band (as well as being auto tuning) so it measures the fuel flow as a total. The advantage you get with the Offy and the vac secondaries (like the TA470) is it provides a diff volumetric flow for the fuel atomization. The secondaries dump more fuel, larger runners in the back plane from the intake to the heads. You are still burning fuel at a given 'rate' in the combustion chamber.

    In the end, it all still boils down to air fuel ratio - running lean, rich, or right on.
     
  18. May 6, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
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    363
    it also has alot to do with intake velocity. if you only use the front barrels, and run small ports, you gain alot of velocity. more low end. then as speed dictates, the rear open up and flow down the larger ports to "fill the need". trust me, i would love to run the powerjection or the fast throttle body, but my intake dictates 4 bbl seperation for proper use.
    toyota i force 5.7 uses the same thing, except its electronic and it has over 400 ftlbs from like nothing through mid rpm range. its impressive. alass, mine is the old 60's mechanical style. i will be happy with it though. =)
     
  19. May 6, 2010
    jhuey

    jhuey Michigan Jeeper!

    Indian River...
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    415
    It rides fine, it is a Jeep (I do smile the whole time I drive it:)), the holbrook springs made the ride much more smoother, and the benefit is great artculation. As I said before it is not a daily driver and any drive ability issues fall away when I hit the trails. It's tall (compared to stock) and a handful in a crosswind at 55 to 60 mph. The 5.35 gears keep me slow so it is not usually an issue because I drive at 45 to 50 mph. Those are the reasons I trailer it if my trail is over 50 miles. I put a steering stabilizer on it and spidertrax 1.25" spacers on to widen out things which it helps. I have 10" front drums on my 27 and 9" drums on the rear, it's a 44 tapered. It stops ok. I do want to upgrade to disc brakes all around with a set of Dana 44's, flanged for the rear and open on the front. I lifted it 1.75" with a home made lift, I took 2" diameter nylon rod and cut it and drilled it. I still have the stock pedals. I welded up the holes and when the lift was installed I took a punch and popped new holes in it for the in floor pedals ( I have a Herm two circuit master cylinder). I did all the body work and all but held the spray gun, a friend with a much steadier hand shot it. Thanks for the positive comments:D. The dang thing was a long time coming. The first time I climbed a hill it surprised me, I have a friend who has a hill that none of them (all serious Jeepers) were able to climb. well the first time I was there with the little Jeep it ripped up without any problem, it pi$$ed them all off, but I had a ear to ear grin!:beer::beer:
    [​IMG]
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  20. May 7, 2010
    Phalanxx

    Phalanxx Jeep Newbie

    iraq, texas,...
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    363
    it brings a tear to my eye to hear that..lol

    when mine was going back in 03, we were wheeling up un maine by canada at the MWR facility and there was a hill there no one made up. it took me 2 tries, but once i figured out it was pretty sandy, i spun the tires alot. then, i drove down 1/2 way and backed up it. wanna talk about upsetting people..lol

    i need to hire you to do mine. forget collins brothers..that jeep is SMOKIN!. =)
    mine is white like that except i have a full rock roll cage. i have the dual master cyl as well. i think the 4" suspension and a body lift like yours would be perfect. 1.5" or so...

    could you cut and drill some body mounts for me? do u have a paypal acount? i will send ya something for em if you mail them to my house in texas. i will have my brother take them to collins when they restore it. and that does it for me...i need to find a 44 for the front, i want those 35's..=)
    ok, the serch is on. dana 44 wt front and rear...i need to find a waggy somewhere.
    =)
    dewd...that last pic on here kills me. i put it as my desktop. =)
     
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