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Heavy Duty V6 Clutch?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by termin8ed, May 18, 2018.

  1. May 18, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    I put a new clutch in the jeep years ago before the last tellico trip i was on. Ever since then ive hated the clutch. Ive forgotten what i installed since then but cant remember if its a heavy duty clutch or not.

    My issue has allways been that it seems to be on, or off. I had the stock linkage, upgraded to the AA chain setup. Still the same on or off clutch. Ive stalled out a few times at lights or chirped the tires pretty good also:whistle:

    Would it be safe to say i installed a heavy duty clutch vs a lighter duty one?
    Its not really hard at least to me to push the clutch in, just that it doesnt feather on evenly.

    Anything i might be able to look for with it still in the jeep to identify it?
     
  2. May 19, 2018
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Did you have the flywheel refaced when the clutch was installed? Also it's helpful to install the bell housing sans transmission and check the center of indexing hole to pilot bushing center and check that the transmission face is parallel to the block. Having to shim the bell or change the index pins is not unheard of.
     
  3. May 19, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yes actual clutch manufacturer and the basic design could certainly be a factor in how it performs.

    All of the earliest Dauntless engines were equipped with a 10.4" diaphram type clutches.
    These were actually made by Borg Beck including the driven disk.
    For 1970 and 71 Jeep Dauntless switched over to a three finger designed clutch by Borg Beck.
    These original 3 finger clutches have a higher plate pressure than diaphram type and are considered to be HD clutches.

    The diaphram types typically have a softer feel than the three fingered design.
    Plus the design and materials used in the construction of the driven disk can be huge factor.
     
    Bowbender likes this.
  4. May 19, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Thanks for the info. Ill check later and see if i can tell what style plate i have.

    I "think" i had the flywheel surfaced
     
  5. May 19, 2018
    WestCoastPat

    WestCoastPat Member

    Orting, WA...
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    The first guy in the JEEP club we ran with to have a V6 had a lot of problems with a very heavy right foot, and said he needed a heavy duty clutch set up. He was a farm mechanic so he did some searching and found that a clutch out of a Clark forklift fit. He got one and never had another clutch problem. Just Saying. WCP
     
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  6. May 19, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    HD clutches will normally be an advantage if you are pushing / pulling heavier loads than normal.
    The prime examples are: snow plowing and or log skidding.
     
  7. May 19, 2018
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    another note about borg & beck pressure plates
    is the number of springs
    when I first got my jeep PO had replaced clutch
    it was a leg shaker and just as hard on cable clutch
    turned out he had put in a 12 spring pressure plate
    I replaced it with a 9 spring . much better on leg and cable
     
  8. May 19, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Tried looking with a mirror tonight and i couldn't see enough to tell. I'll have to wait till monday to get my scope so i can see inside the bell.
     
  9. May 26, 2018
    windyhill

    windyhill Sponsor

    PA
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    I have the exact same problem. Resurfaced the clutch, replaced with diaphragm clutch, it's almost undrivable now, 0 to 100% in it feels like 1/2"! snaps your neck back, makes the Jeep a PITA to drive. I have a three finger type in my other Jeep and its fine. I was wondering if I could modify the cross tube mounts on my clutch linkage to help. I really don't want to pull it again.
     
  10. May 27, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Sounds about the same as me allright. I brought my bore scope home and ill try getting some pics of whats inside the bell today.
     
  11. May 27, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Mirrored image, but made in brazil?
    [​IMG]

    Diaphram pressure plate
    [​IMG]

    Lools like its seated, but thoughts?
    [​IMG]
     
  12. May 27, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    HD clutches can be defined in two ways when it comes to torque load..............increased plate pressure or a higher co-efficient of clutch material on the clutch plate.......which some call Ceramic ...........In either case the torque load of the clutch package can be increased by either method or combining both for further increased loads......... a Rag disc and a higher plate load or Ceramic disc and std plate load can equal the same torque load........The Rag disc slips a little more initially and then the increased plate load and centrifugal weight lock it up..............VS .....the Ceramic disc locking up more aggressively because of the higher coefficient of drag materiel..

    I'm guessing if you had both surfaces ground flat and all other things are equal , then you probably have a higher coefficient disc in there which can act like a light switch when releasing the pedal.
     
  13. May 27, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Thanks tarry. That makes sense now. Didnt even think about the friction material making a difference.
    Guess i can look into a new clutch disk and see what i have once its apart
     
  14. May 27, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Anyone have any recommendations?
     
  15. May 27, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Keep in mind if you go back to a Rag disc and the loads your putting against that package exceed the rating like: ( towing , more horsepower , gear ratios , weight , climbing hills often ) chances are it will probably slip some and increase the wear........clutches naturally wear and should be adjusted as often as needed to maintain your free-play...........If adjustments are needed too often that's a sure sign it's wearing and the clutch perhaps is not correct for the work load or driver ........Before buying one again , spend some time researching your next clutch purchase by calling the manufacturer and talk with the tech people and see what options they offer in there clutch line up.........also not unusual to mix a clutch disc from another manufacture to your pressure plate as long as size , thickness and spline are correct.............doing that will sometimes give you the ability to better match the friction materials to your type of work or driving.
     
  16. May 27, 2018
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    For starters your arm is not seated correctly on the pivot ball.
     
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  17. May 27, 2018
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    It looks like its seated, but the clip doesnt look like its on right. I may check the movement on that tomorrow
     
  18. May 27, 2018
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I think your fork is out a little bit. Can your scope see the throwout bearing / fork arrangement?
     
  19. May 28, 2018
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I'm not really familiar with how the AA chain setup works, but would it be possible to move its mounting point on the pedal a little closer to the pedal's pivot point to gain more leverage? This would spread the engagement over a greater distance of pedal movement.

    Back in the day, the best thing I ever did to improve the clutch feel on my '70 was to use a bell from a Monza (with a Chevy trans). The fork pivot was on the far side of the throwout bearing, which gives the fork a 2:1 ratio, where the stock jeep linkage is on the near side and is 1:1. A cable is needed to do this though, since the fork needs to be pulled from the opposite direction.
     
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