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Greetings...and Cj5 Clutch Issue

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by Siege '69, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Jul 8, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2019
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    Greetings, all....I'm new to the forum, but not new to early CJ's. I'm looking forward to learning from all of you and humbly helping where I can.

    I have a '69 CJ5 (Dauntless V6; T14). Yesterday morning, the clutch worked great and felt strong. Then yesterday afternoon I was downshifting on approach to an intersection and the next thing I know my clutch pedal goes completely to the floor with no resistance whatsoever. I pulled to the side of the road and could not shift into any gear. I immediately suspected something in the linkage.

    So I had the jeep towed back to my house and began to inspect the linkage. Surprisingly, everything from the clutch pedal control arm to the bell housing is intact and looked good, down to the last cotter pin, but the cable simply is not traveling much at all when the control arm is moved. The cable isn't broken -- I checked it by moving it freely through the cable casing by hand at the control arm and its transmitting (though minimally) all the way to the bell housing

    So, I'm at a loss....and am eager to hear from anyone with ideas. Thanks in advance for any help!
     
  2. Jul 8, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    5,735
    Which clutch setup do you have?

    This one-

    upload_2019-7-8_20-3-37.png

    Or this one-


    upload_2019-7-8_20-5-11.png
     
    Hellion likes this.
  3. Jul 8, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    Likely the second one. 68 had the linkage, 69 switched to the cable. He also mentions the cable.

    Welcome from just down the road in Rogers!

    Clutch throw-out lever may have popped off the pivot ball inside the bell housing or you may have broken pressure plate springs...my initial guesses.
     
  4. Jul 8, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2019
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    Thanks Howard and Tim! (Great to see a close neighbor on this forum).
    Right...the second image is my setup. Thanks again for your help. I'll check it out...
     
  5. Jul 8, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Jul 30, 2003
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    Highly unlikely, unless someone has installed the Commando set-up into your CJ.
    The CJ used a 1 piece clutch cable, from the clutch pedal to the t/o fork.
    There was an adjuster with a ball end that threaded onto the end of the cable and slipped into the t/o fork.
    Has your ball adjuster end broken off at the fork ?
     
  6. Jul 9, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2019
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    jpflat2a: On further evaluation of the linkage, you're exactly right, my setup is a 1-piece cable from the clutch pedal to the t/o fork. Thanks for calling that out. I looked at the ball-end of the adjuster at the fork, as you suggested, and it is completely intact. In fact, all the linkage from the fork to the pedal is entirely intact; I don't see any hardware missing, any kinks, any breaks....nothing. Additionally, I can see the cable transmitting from the pedal to the fork when I manually cycle the clutch pedal, but it's very minimal (< 1/2 inch). The issue seems to be where the cable attaches to the pedal arm. It's just not being pulled an adequate distance when the clutch pedal arm is manually moved back and forth.
     
  7. Jul 9, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    :oops:

    I was wondering about that hanging pedal...

    Found an old post with cable pics in it-

    1970 CJ-5, V6 Clutch Linkage problems
     
  8. Jul 9, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Jul 30, 2003
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    Thanks Howard. I had looked and couldn't find any pictures..
    The parts manual doesn't show the 1 piece set-up at all.

    Siege69: the cable should move the same amount that the pedal does when depressed (or close to it)
    I'd be looking closely at that cable.
     
  9. Jul 9, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
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    Howard: Thanks for the pics -- very helpful.
    jpflat2a: Thanks again for your insights. I'll be checking out the cable, and will report back with my findings.
     
  10. Jul 10, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2019
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    Update to this thread: I examined the clutch cable closely from the clutch pedal control arm to the t/o fork. Additionally, I disconnected the cable at the ball-end of the adjuster (at the fork) and pulled the cable to check its integrity back to clutch pedal arm. All indications are that the cable is in good working condition and not binding or broken anywhere (i lubed the entire cable while I was at it). What I did notice was that the fork itself (where it connects to the ball end of the adjuster) is not conveying all the way to the forward position, with the cable, when the clutch pedal is released (I have to move manually). It is, however, conveying fully to the aft position when the clutch pedal is depressed. I hope all that makes sense. The fork itself doesn't feel loose or like it's binding anywhere -- it feels normal. Thanks in advance for any added insights.
     
  11. Jul 11, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
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    Okay, well...here's the latest: I/we decided to borosope my bell housing to see if there was anything amiss in there. We found no problems at all -- zero. The pivot ball, the pressure plate, the fork, etc...it all looked as it should. So after we exhausted all other possibilities, we decided to adjust the clutch cable, assuming that it must have somehow come out of adjustment. And wouldn't you know it...voila! The clutch was working fine again. I even took the jeep for a spin around the neighborhood a couple of times. The clutch was smooth and displayed no problems at all.

    Fast forward 3 hours. I decide to start the Jeep up and check out the clutch again. I got through 2 or 3 shift cycles sitting in my driveway and wouldn't you know it, it started to fail to shift again (beginning with reverse), and now it wont shift at all. Interestingly the clutch pedal hasn't collapsed to the floor like it did last time.

    Any ideas, thoughts, insights, straightjackets, would be welcome. Thanks.
     
  12. Jul 11, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Cable stretching ?
     
  13. Jul 12, 2019
    tomasinator

    tomasinator Member

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    Maybe the cable is unfraying, strand by strand, inside the housing. You adjust it to take up the slack, take it for a ride, and the stress of pressing the clutch pedal causes a few more strands to break?
     
  14. Jul 12, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
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    jpflat2a: I wondered the same thing (cable stretching). Do you think it's feasible that a cable would stretch that quickly?
    tomasinator: I haven't examined the cable closely for fraying, but the portion of the cable visible outside the casing looks to be in pretty good shape.

    Perhaps I should just R2 the cable anyway --- they're only $35 bucks and it's easy to do. My only hesitation is that if cable stretch is the culprit, I would have thought I would experience incremental difficulty in shifting, not sudden failure altogether.
     
  15. Jul 12, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Replace the cable on spec. The ends always look good, it's the low spot in the middle where the water accumulates that they rust & fail.
     
    Rick Whitson likes this.
  16. Jul 12, 2019
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    I agree with others that maybe the cable is stretching . on mine there's a cable clamp at the back of hoop
    I am guessing it's there to hold the shape of cable . when clutch is pressed
    DSCN0485.JPG
     
  17. Jul 12, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
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    Noted -- Will do. Thanks, Howard.
     
  18. Jul 12, 2019
    Siege '69

    Siege '69 Air Force Vet; F-15 Junkie

    Bella Vista, AR
    Joined:
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    Interesting, Ron -- thanks for the pick. I don't think I have that clamp installed.....but I will now.
     
  19. Jul 12, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    IME clutch cables just come apart and fail. Not that they are any less reliable than other arrangements, but that's what fails. I'd get the part and replace it. You might carry a spare too, though with the right technique you can drive without a clutch.

    "On spec" means on speculation? I think I've heard that before, but not sure. Maybe it's something they say more often in Canada. :coffee:
     
  20. Jul 12, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Round here it means you do something with your own capital, hoping for a profitable sale, rather than a guaranteed or pre-paid contract.
     

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