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Front Frame Rail Replacement And Crossmember Repair... And Ford Steering Box Install

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by ITLKSEZ, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. Dec 9, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I thought I'd post the progress on replacing the frame rails on my buddy's '71 frame in case the design could be of use to anyone else.

    The jeep is a '68, but the stock frame I'd originally planned on repairing was toast; bent like an "S" from front to back, and between a bad PS conversion and the Ramsey winch up front, the front half was beyond reasonable repair. He found this frame on CL untouched, but the PO felt it necessary to hack off the V-6 motor mounts before he went to pick it up. :susp: Luckily I cut the mounts off the original frame before it was hauled off.

    Sooo...
    The plan is to replace the motor mounts, cut off the weak frame horns and replace them with tubing, and mount a better-executed power steering box.

    I began by measuring, marking, measuring again, then cutting. I use a cutoff wheel in a grinder, then finish the ends of the cuts with a sawzall.

    [​IMG]

    These puzzle-like cuts are fit with a section of 2" x 3" x 3/16" tubing that is cut to match/overlap the frame rail and front crossmember.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I got the frame rails and motor mounts tacked in place (measurements compliments of Mighty Mouse). I had originally planned on a standard Saginaw steering box swap, but at the last minute I came across a guy on CL with a pile of old Ford junk. I asked if he had a 78-79 Bronco or F-150 steering box, and he texted me he'd check. Last night at 10:00 he replied he did, and we struck a deal. I pick it up tomorrow. So, with that style box, shock mounts had to come off. They'll get moved behind the axle.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
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  2. Dec 9, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    The underbelly:

    Like most hack-job Saginaw conversions, the PO removed the bellcrank with a torch and left a gaping hole in the crossmember. I cut the bad section out along with more of the plate because most of the spot welds had failed on that side.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Using a CAD template, I cut a piece of 1/8" plate to fit, then took it back out and drilled holes for plug welds. Also note the small plates over the frame rail-to-tubing joint. I was careful to not interfere with the rivet.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Dec 9, 2016
    47v6

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    This is really nice.
     
  4. Dec 9, 2016
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    X2 following....
     
  5. Dec 11, 2016
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    Well done!
     
  6. Dec 12, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    Looking good!
     
  7. Dec 13, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Thanks guys.

    I got the frame welded up last night. I stuck a diagonal brace in there to keep the rails from pulling one way or the other when welding. Nothing moved at all when I popped it back off, so it either worked, or I didn't need it. I plug welded the overlapping area on the sides too.

    [​IMG]

    Now the dilemma: Going into this, I wasn't sure which style of steering box to use. The typical Saginaw box just isn't going to fit without some major voodoo magic. The owner wants to keep the full-size Ramsey PTO winch, but a standard Saginaw box just doesn't fit. I can scoot the winch over maybe 1 1/8", but I'd then still have to somehow french the box into the frame rail to get it to fit, and that would leave little-to-no room for winch mounting plates. Here is the Sag box:

    [​IMG]

    The other option is to use a Ford box with a dropped pitman arm. I'm hesitant to do this, because while the owner is eager to learn, setting up a custom steering column and hydraulic lines in such tight quarters might be more than he wants to handle after I hand this thing back to him.

    [​IMG]

    Thoughts? Opinions?
     
  8. Dec 13, 2016
    47v6

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    Ford box. Its the only good option if he wants to keep the winch. The amount of frame rail you would need to remove would weaken the mounting point for the steering gear. The fix for that is some strange engineering that might not be so great. Maybe you could make it work though. I don think it will be any more difficult to fab stuff up for the ford than the saginaw box. Might be annoying to try and fit headers on the V6. Might work just fine. Rear dump cast manifolds should clear it all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  9. Dec 13, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Good call on the headers. I'm not sure if he's planning on running manifolds or headers. I'll ask. That might be the determining factor.

    With the winch moved over as far as possible and the Saginaw box in place, it would be below the top of the tubing, so a lot of the structural integrity would remain after being notched and boxed. But still, it's hard to want to do that much work on something that's not mine. Thanks for the input.
     
  10. Dec 13, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    He just sent me a picture of the jeep the PO gave him of when it was assembled. It has manifolds. BUT, the winch is also mounted higher than where I have it sitting. I'll have to study this at depth tonight.
     
  11. Dec 14, 2016
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    I ran a Koenig PTO for several years with a Saginaw conversion. I moved the winch over toward the passenger side as far as I could and had no issues routing the driveshaft for the winch. In your pic with the Saginaw box, I hope you aren't considering mounting it that high on the frame. You might give a look at the thread regarding power steering in the Builds and Fabricators Forum for some ideas. Very nice work, by the way.
     
  12. Dec 14, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    Haha, nope, I'd just sat it up there to see what I had to work with for clearances. I've done these conversions before, just never with a winch in the way. Thanks for the kind words. I love this stuff.

    I decided to go with the Ford box. I'll have an update tomorrow... if I can make it one more night without sleep! :watch:
     
  13. Dec 15, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    The steering gear box I'm using is from a '78-'79 Ford Bronco, or '73(?)-'79 F150.

    Since this box fits over the axle, the key to placing this box is to get it to where the tie rod will stuff into the area between the sector shaft and the drop in the pitman arm when the DS is at full stuff. Without an axle to use as a reference, I'm sorta flying blind, pulling measurements off of mighty mouse (who is covered in a foot of snow). It will have a 4" lift and a tie rod flip, so placement isn't super-critical, but it's still a little unnerving.

    I began the process by filling the existing holes in the area, placing the box where I want it, and transferring the 1/2" holes into the frame.

    [​IMG]

    As a little "Fabrication 101" lesson, here's how I make my CAD templates. On this one, I began by fitting my front and rear fish mouths. Then while holding the cardboard in place, I used a ball-peen hammer to transfer the holes into the template one at a time, while placing bolts through the holes as I go to keep the template in place.

    [​IMG]

    Then trace the outer edges to the frame...

    [​IMG]

    I then clamped the template to the 3/16" plate and transferred the marks to the plate with a center punch and scribe, then I went over the scribe marks with a soapstone to make it more visible while using the torch. A little clean-up with the grinder and a trip to the drill press to drill the holes for the bolts and plug welds, and voila! I placed the front two plug weld holes directly over where the through-the-frame weld was that holds the front crossmember on, in order to maintain a good bond.

    [​IMG]

    Now here's where it gets creative. I took the plate back off and drilled the holes in the frame out to 3/4" - just enough to accept some 1/2" rod coupling nuts:
    [​IMG]

    Then where every flat sits, I used a jigsaw and notched out the frame in order to get 6 plug welds on the sides of each nut.

    [​IMG]

    I set the nuts in the frame, the plate in place, and the nuts in the plate to locate and center and plumb the nuts. I used a block of wood to lift the plate so I could get in there with the welder. I wiped a healthy amount of anti-spatter on the threads to prevent sticking and spatter.

    [​IMG]

    I shot the MIG wire down in the hole and let it build up and out on the nut before working my way around the edges of the cutouts.

    [​IMG]

    I ground them flush so the plate will sit flat. With this design, even if the welds break, the nut is still larger than the opening in the plate that goes over it, so it is essentially fail-safe.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  14. Dec 15, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I then put the plate and the box on, tightened it down and tacked the plate in place.

    [​IMG]

    Weld it up! I still need to grind the plug welds smooth and make it pretty, but I'm liking this design. It allows maximum thread count and keeps the back end of the bolt from rusting and becoming impossible to remove. I might have to copy it for mighty mouse.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  15. Dec 15, 2016
    47v6

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    Yeah, thats nice. I like the long nut idea. I generally drill out a piece of round stock on my lathe, tap it and then weld it in. Your way is faster.
     
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  16. Dec 15, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    But your way is cooler. You have a lathe.
     
  17. Dec 16, 2016
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor

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    I don't know how I missed this thread, but great work! I really like how you "jigsawed" in new front frame horns!
     
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  18. Dec 17, 2016
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
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    nice work on that
     
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  19. Dec 18, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Front shackle and shock mounts are tacked in place.

    [​IMG]

    It took some work to get the pitman arm off of that box. It's bigger than a standard Saginaw box, so my puller was too small to fit. I used a 2-jaw puller and heat. When it finally popped, it shot about 4 feet in the air and scared the :poo: out of me. :)

    The last thing on the list is mounting this monster winch.
     
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  20. Dec 18, 2016
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Since you have a bare frame sitting there, has there been any talk of boxing the frame? In the area of the spring and shackle mounts?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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