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Fitech Efi Install On 78 Cj5

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Desert Runner, May 18, 2017.

  1. May 18, 2017
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    I have been getting things together to start this conversion. The engine, as it sits now is an AMC 304 Bored .030 over, balanced. Of course that was 28 years, and about 150,000 miles ago. But it still run great and no smoke. I will try to do a compression test before I start just to make sure I don't have any hidden gremlins anywhere.

    [​IMG]

    According to the instructions there are two way to go for supplying fuel.
    1. To use their Command Ctr at $400
    2. Use their rear mounted external fuel pump w/Hoses and fittings for $300

    I opted to combine the two. As was discussed in the Off Topic thread, I am going to use a surge tank.
    The first design used a small 2"x 4" black pipe w/ caps, but I thought maybe that was too small. So I made tank 4"x8" from PVC, used purple cleaner on 1/2" end of pipe and in the cap. put the glue only in the cap, then above the purple on the pipe I put plastic epoxy. Seated the caps and let it sit over night.
    BTW I research the PVC Chemical Resistance chart from ALECO http://www.aleco.com/chemical-chart.html says PVC is "Good" against Gasoline.

    I will take the feed from the mechanical pump and filter, to feed the surge tank thru a one way valve just to make sure it doesn't see any back pressure.
    Note: the fuel system originally had a return line, but I have not been using it for the last 2 yrs, seemingly without any problem. So if pressure does build up and the valve stops flow, this should not be an issue.
    This 5/16ths feed line enters the bottom of the surge tank, on the top there is a 5/16ths return line to the main tank. Then off the other side/bottom there is a 3/8ths line going thru another filter to the electric fuel pump. I have mounted the surge tank and the fuel pump temporarily on the grill brace for two reasons.
    1. limited space/ease of access.
    2. the fuel pump sit right in the air stream coming from the fan. (to help keep it cool)

    Then from the fuel pump to another filter (high pressure capable) to the EFI unit....... Which I will continue with, this weekend. The return line from the Throttle body will go to the top of the surge tank.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Jay
     
  2. May 19, 2017
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    I would be afraid as the mechanical fuel pump is devering around 100 L/ph and they state that they need to a 340 L/ph to feed the efi system.


    Also there is too much connection/fiting on the feed hoze, it can cause cavitation and may bring problem when rolling.

    I did had some problem with the tbi kit because i was having too much connection, i finaly get rid of the problem by putting the minimum fitting possible on the line.

    Also they may have supply some rubber hoze but i would suggest to run hard line (metal or zinc one) and just use rubber when only necessary to make the connection.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  3. May 19, 2017
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    The flow rate is another reason I went with a larger tank, but since the return line comes back to the surge tank first, the only fuel missing is what went thru the throttle body into the engine, the mechanical pump only has to make up the difference. as for hard line, I have considered it, I am looking for my coil of tubing in the garage, I've found the 1/4" but haven't found the 3/8ths.

    Jay
     
  4. May 19, 2017
    OleBlue

    OleBlue Sponsor

    Tennessee
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    Xtevan Austin likes this.
  5. May 19, 2017
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    Looked at the chart and not being a chemist, I didn't see any of the alcohol additives in our fine gasoline today. I hope the pvc works for you. Cool project.
     
  6. May 20, 2017
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    I too installed TBI on my 304. I eventually installed an in tank pump. Bought a replacement for a 91 GM and adapted it..
     
  7. May 20, 2017
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    For those who have installed Fuel Injection on your V8's was there a MPG increase? From what to what?

    My 350 1990 GMC Suburban gets 18,
    my 1995 G-20 Van bounces between 13 and 18.
    I'm hoping for 15 or better from the 304.
    I currently get 10 - 11

    Jay
     
  8. May 21, 2017
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    Dunno, I don't really keep track as most of my driving is off road in low range 4WD
     
  9. May 22, 2017
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    Did a compression test today, and I am a little surprised. The engine was rebuilt in 1989 at 185,000 it now has 290,000 and the numbers are as follows

    1 150 2 168
    3 150 4 165
    5 150 6 145
    7 165 8 162
    note: the #2 plug electrode was completely worn away with a gap over .050. s/b .035

    I thought I had replaced the plugs last year on my desert run, but they look much older.
    With new plugs the engine purrs again, without a stumble or burble. gotta love maintenance.

    Jay
     
    DrDanteIII likes this.
  10. May 23, 2017
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    Don't expect a big difference in MPG. Tbi will give a better mix of air/fuel but you won't see any big difference.

    For my 360 i maybe get 1-2 mpg better than carb.
     
  11. May 23, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Aside from the driver, tuning makes the most difference. It's easier to get a driveable lean mixture with EFI, since you can programmatically adjust the AFR. But theoretically, both a carburetor and EFI should get the same mileage with the same driver under most conditions.

    Megamanual has a lot of stuff about EFI ... Tuning Your MegaSquirt-II™ (or MicroSquirt®)
     
  12. Apr 6, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    After all the issues have been dealt with and the Jeep runs and idles fine, I decided to install the FiTech fuel injection. :bananatool: (and ignore the leaky radiator for now.)

    As posted above the fuel system is in place, the only difference is I am using an electric fuel pump to fill the F/I reservoir. On my last trip the mechanical pump failed.

    The installation is pretty straight forward, removed old carb, take fuel like and run it to the white tank. install FiTech and bolt down. Run hi pressure and return lines. Turn on electric fuel pump ........ tighten hose clamps to stop leaks, :susp: and fill reservoir tank.

    Then there is the wiring, everything is labeled nicely. Red wire to the Battery, Orange to the Hi Pressure fuel pump, White wire to switched power and blue wire to coil (-) terminal. All the rest of the wires go to multiple fans that I don't have. run vac advance hose and PCV. install temp sensor into intake, and drill hole in exhaust in clamp on a threaded plate for the O2 sensor.

    The instructions say to turn the key on and off several times to prime the system and remove any air. Once this is done, leave the key on and plug in the LCD screen. You have to go thru the menu changing the default data to match what you have.
    8 cyl didn't change that, changed 355 CID to 304, Cam to 1 (1-4 mild to wild) I set idle rpm to 700 and changed red line to 6500. hit the send button and get the notice the send was received. I then turned everything off then back on, ... the fuel pump runs for 3 or 4 sec, and I turn the key ....... crank no start and the digital screen goes white. :steamed: Turn the key off and back on and nothing, no pump, no screen, it's still white. So I unplug the power, plug it back in, it initializes, and all my data is back to default.

    I decided it was time to get another coffee :coffee: I also called FiTech tech support. Wait time wasn't too bad about 15 minutes. First thing he told me to do was run a Gnd wire from the battery to the stud on the carb. When that didn't work, I was told to move the red battery wire directly to the battery. This did the trick, everything worked like it was supposed to, and the when I turned the key it started right up.
    Their tech support was very kind and easy to talk to :bow: So I neatened the wiring, ran the cable for the LCD inside and got it mounted. Now I just need to put come miles on it to let it learn

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Apr 6, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    Over all I have only 2 negatives.
    1. The center bolt for the air cleaner is 5/16 ths in stead of 1/4 x 20. So I welded a 3" 1/4 x 20 bolt on top of a 1" 5/16 bolt.

    2. The AMC air cleaner center hole is too big for the top of FiTech's carb. by about 3/8 of an inch. enough so that the gasket supplied is too small to seal. Also there is a boss on top or the carb that hits the air cleaner thus not allowing it to sit flush on top. To fix this I took a length of vac hose and made a ring where the gasket sits, the air cleaner not sits higher, enough to clear and seal completely.
     
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  14. Apr 7, 2020
    numbersix

    numbersix Newberg, Oregon

    Oregon
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    A few months back I installed the fitech 400 model on my 258. I've been very happy with it so far. Agree with your negatives, the 5/16th hole seemed like an odd choice. Had to waste time tracking down something that would work. Gave up and made an adapter from some threaded rod I had on hand. The self-learn mechanism seemed to take care of tuning except for some really obnoxious popping / sputter on deceleration. I ended up adjusting the decel cut / return MAP settings which fixed the issue. System was far too lean on decel which causing the popping.
     
    Desert Runner likes this.
  15. Aug 17, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    Time tor an update, I was hoping to ask for help fine tuning my system. But I have problems. I sent an email to FiTech because I could not get my controller to connect via usb. They responded, and said I wasn't using a Data usb cable. After trying several, I found one that worked. Yeah!! But all I saw were the files I could see by removing the chip and putting it in a card reader. And none of those files were dated any newer than 2016. I have had data logging on for several trips but I can find no log files. I tried reading from the ECU, I had to select a backup file to write to, I selected one and at 98% the write failed

    So I sent another email to FiTech. We'll see.
     
  16. Aug 17, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I also have a few drive ability issues

    1. From a standing start, it stumbles, I have to either feather the gas pedal or increase rpm and slip the clutch to get started.

    2. On hills, I can maintain speed but not increase until I get to the crest. It just kind of bogs.

    3. After decelerating or on a flat where you have slightly let up on the pedal, when reapplying throttle is stumbles. I have changed de cell numbers from the 20's to 16/18, it doesn't stall any more, maybe I need to go lower or shut decell off all together.

    All of these issues are dependent on the log files I have been unable to obtain.

    Hopefully FiTech will have an answer.
     
  17. Aug 18, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    The response is fast. I asked
    I do not see a log folder, And yes I have logging turned on for the last several trips.
    Is there something else I need to do ?

    answer:
    Sir,
    You can create a new file. log_file folder and add to the files.
    Thanks,

    John

    So that means their software doesn't create it's own folder??? OK so I created it.

    Second question
    I also tried to read from ECU, it asked what file to write to, I selected backup1, it got to 98% and said error.


    Sir,
    It will have to be write to cal. not read from. that may affect the ecu. pull files out .
    Thanks,

    John

    I will have to make another run to see if a log file will be created. and I'll send another email about not being able to "write from ECU"
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  18. Aug 18, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    The tech above says to "write cal to ECU" Unfortunately When you do, it wipes your data, so i responded again


    I did a write cal to ecu, which "succeeded", and wiped out the data I had changed. (Did it also wipe my learned data so far???)


    I changed the basic settings to match my engine and the Dcfo numbers to 16/18. turned key off and back on, insured they were still there, the tried to do the "read cal from ECU which failed



    Then he responded

    Sir,

    yes it sets everything back to default when you write cal to ecu.

    So its all back to default settings.


    John

    :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

    But does not answer my question as to why saving the data failed.

    another email
     
  19. Aug 18, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    Sir,

    That was to get everything back to default as i had mentioned in that email. We tried this because one of the files may have been out of place seeing as how you could not connect and load failure was happening .

    When this happens does anything pop up saying TF card error? it may be the software.


    Thanks ,

    John

    response
    I just went and tried again, "Read cal from ECU" selected Backup1 and waited, when the progress bar got to 98% a msg came up "ECU Response Error" Nothing else

    I just noticed we don't have a foot tapping waiting icon......
     
  20. Aug 18, 2020
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Will they answer the phone if you call? May be able to talk you through the problem.
     
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