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first of many questions not sure of year?

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by tnavel, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. Apr 27, 2008
    tnavel

    tnavel New Member

    REDDING, CA
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    i have an early willys mb. i think its possibly a 44-45 military jeep. it has split windows. willys on front of window frame. recessed headlights.the engine has the number638632 on the side there is a machined spot behind the oil filter but nothing there.in the back of the jeep i found two trannys taken apart. first one has t-84on it the second has t-90 on it.i have two transfer cases one says dana c 18-75-24. the other case i cant find much of anything on it . it has an emergency brake on it .the wheels bolt togeather with i think 8 bolts any one have any idea what i have. the modified bumper screwed up any tag on the front drivers frame and the glove box door is missing. any help out there
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008
  2. Apr 27, 2008
    sammy

    sammy Coca-Cola?

    Albuquerque, NM
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
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    1,577
    Howdy from NM!
    From the sounds of it, you have a mix. Split combat rims was MB, recessed head lights was MB, but blank spot behind the oil filter is where MB SN would have belonged. Is the number above the water pump? That's where the CJ number is. Dana 18 is the transfer case you would have, both are off set and if the unmarked one has a parking brake on it, it will most likely be a D18 as well.
    If there is a glove box it would be an MB tub most likely, but we do like pictures on this website to help verify. Sounds like a franken-jeep.
     
  3. Apr 27, 2008
    Bill F

    Bill F Finally running

    Hillsboro NH
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    588
    If your windsheild says willys then it is off a cj2a. If you dont have the tag on the frame and missing the data plates it might be hard to find the year. Post over on g503.com and they will give you other places to look
     
  4. Apr 27, 2008
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    816
    Post some pics.
    Could be a willys or a ford.
    The 638632 is a willys block.
    If you take the oil pan off you will see the date of manufacture towards the rear of the engine on the machined flat gasket surface area.
    Does it have a glove box?
    Is the support underneath the grille a round tube or a formed channel?
    If it has tool boxes in the rear fenderwells, are the lids smooth or is there a pressed in pattern?
    Are there indentations below the doors for axe and shovel on the drivers or passenger side?
    What type of air cleaner do you have?
    We can go on and on..
    Springs,
    Axles,
    grille,
    machine gun mounting plate,
    trailer connector.......
    Would love to see your pictures.
     
  5. Apr 28, 2008
    tnavel

    tnavel New Member

    REDDING, CA
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    The Frame Is Round In The Front And In The Back The Button For The Tool Boxes Have Round Indents. The Glove Box Door Is Missing. Right Behind The Oil Filter On The Side Of The Block Is An Area About 3 Inches X I.5 Inces That Has Been Machined Smooth But Has Nothing On It I Found The Numbers 639660 On The Side Of The Block Also I Found The Numbers W 3 A The Head Has The Numbers 639660. THER ARE NO INDENTS ON THE DRIVERS SIDE. I Tried To Upload Some Pics Of The Block And The Transfer Case But I Have To Resize Them First But Ill Get Them Soon Anyone Can E-mail Me And Ill Be Happy To Send Any And All Pics Thanks For The Help So Far. I Am New To All This . Its Funny I Have Owned This Jeep Since 1971 And It Has Just Sat In The Back Yard All This Time.exactly Like You See It Except I Removed The Window Frame And Stripped It But Thats About All I Have Done To It So Far. I Quess Its Better Late Then NEVER.
    tnavelfubar@att.net
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  6. Apr 28, 2008
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    4,584
    Looks like it has a Fhead under the hood, since it has a scoop thingy on the hood. Boy that jeep needs love.
     
  7. Apr 28, 2008
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Aug 10, 2003
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    23,596
    Yeah, the dishpan on the hood usually means an F-head (a later 4 cyl motor, ca 1954-71).

    9-slots means a WWII grille (MB or GPW). Looks like a civilian tub to me.

    The "FrankenJeep" is a common phenom - put together from whatever was available. It has traits from a few different models. From a legal POV, it's the frame that determines which vehicle it really is. I'd guess it's a WWII vintage frame - the G503 guys could tell you where to look for frame tags and such.
     
  8. Apr 28, 2008
    Bill F

    Bill F Finally running

    Hillsboro NH
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    588
    It is a military tub, has fuel tank sump and glove box. If you look at one of the interior shots you can see the ax and shovel cut outs, they must just be covered on the outside.

    If you slowly remove the bumper that is on it maybe you will fine the frame tag.
     
  9. Apr 28, 2008
    trawler Scott

    trawler Scott Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    99
    Good eye Bill.
     
  10. Apr 28, 2008
    Fnord5

    Fnord5 El Jeepo Gigantico!

    Sacramento...
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    177
    The white mustang (70's) looks familiar, Whereabouts in Redding are you? I could take that Jeep off your hands next time I visit my parents. :D
     
  11. Apr 29, 2008
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    816
    More pics would help. Of the rear panel. Of the tool boxes. Of the engine compartment. So far it looks to me like a MB. (Of course as everyone has mentioned, the steering column and windshield are off something else.) The combination of the round tool box indents and the round frame together make it surely an MB. Since it is most likely a Willys MB, look for remnants of the Willys tag on a plate on the inside of the left front frame up near the bumper. Even if the tag is missing, you can usually see the two rivets left that held it in place. Does your left front spring have the the torque reaction spring? That looks like an extra leaf on the bottom that goes to the rear spring mount and connects to something sort of like a shackle. How about a trailer socket? Kind've funny that you have had the Jeep for so long.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  12. May 8, 2008
    tnavel

    tnavel New Member

    REDDING, CA
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
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    talked to my dad about this engine we have. He told me he found the engine on a wood splitter he bought back in 1970. It did not come with the jeep.would this engine be right for the jeep i have . im still trying to I.D the year of my jeep.On the drivers side i stripped some bondo and found the indents for axe and shovel. Also have a question about the tail lights . im sure that the lights in the back are after market. i looked under the back and found a small box low on the back .Could this be the original tail light box?. I also took pics of the frame from under the jeep i am getting ready to remove the tub . i took pics of the frame where the front shackel mounts but cant see any indication of a id plate there. are the numbers stamped into the frame if so ill have to cut all that crap on the bumper away before i can see anything.The engine number i found is CJ-2A39915. The engine in the jeep now isnt even a willys engine so that is why some one cut up my hood and put an inverted gold pan so the carb would fit under the hood. Im making progress thanks to all you guys info thanks a lot i have to downsize my pictures because they exceed the allowed size. i will send them as is to any one interested thanks again for all your expertise.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  13. May 11, 2008
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
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    Aug 6, 2006
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    816
    The cj-2a engine is very similar to an MB engine. I would use it. But it shouldn't require the hood to be raised. Someone must have had something different in there before.
    The boxes in the back are for the blackout style tailights.
    That is a willys frame, with the machine gun mount being more rounded. I also saw willys mb leaf springs. Does the left front spring have an extra leaf at the bottom?
     
  14. May 14, 2008
    tnavel

    tnavel New Member

    REDDING, CA
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    Apr 27, 2008
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  15. May 14, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The engine shown in the Jeep is an F-head and they are a little taller, especially the carb. That's probably why the pan on the hood, to clear the carb of the F-head. Very common mod back in the day. The one shown on the engine stand is an L-head motor which would have been stock in your Jeep. Whether the one you have is "correct" for the year of MB you have I can't answer, maybe someone more knowledgable can. I see in your pics a T-90 which was stock in civilian Flatties and CJ's up to '71 and a T-84 which was stock in the Military WW 2 Flatties. I also see a model 20 transfer case from a Scout 2. That's the one with the rear output in line with the input. The 18 off set transfer case appears to be correct for you MB as it looks like it has the 3/4" intermediate shaft and the WW 2 style park brake. If you're restoring to original, the T-84 and that 18 transfer case are important. If not, then I'd upgrade to a later 18 transfer case and maybe use the T-90 which is much stronger and parts are available vs. the T-84 where parts can be hard to find and expensive. Plus they are very tiny transmissions. It all depends on which way you are going. Very cool progress! I like the combat wheels!
     
  16. May 14, 2008
    tnavel

    tnavel New Member

    REDDING, CA
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
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    nickmil i want to stay as original as posible so i will use the t-84. ill take my time and keep pluggin away at it. soon i will cut away that front bumper and see if the tag is still on the gusset i hope so i would really like to know what year it is. the tranny has two side drain holes on . it looks a little different then some other t-84 trannys i have seen on the net. finding out the year would help when i order the correct replacement parts. Thanks for the input . i need all i can get.
     
  17. May 15, 2008
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
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    Aug 6, 2006
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    816
    Here are some things to look for that may not have been messed with over the years. I think you have a 42 or 43 MB. Keep in mind that lots of parts get swapped out and do not represent your year.

    rear brake hose frame attachment moved from left frame to crossmember above rear axle 12/41
    clutch pedal changed to rounded end 01/42
    Fuel tank hole changed from square to rounded corners 2/42
    glove box latch added 4/42
    Torque reaction spring added 5/42
    Trailer plug socket added 7/42
    Accelerator pedal seal switched from rubber to leather 9/42
    Piece of metal that protects the trailer socket in the left rear tool box added 12/42
    metal spoked steering wheel after 1/43
    radio terminal box added (4 holes in lower right side panel beside passenger seat) 3/43

    Get a good photo of the inner front frame rail. Maybe we can save you some work.
    If you don't find the frame number up front, get the body number on the left body gusset (Near the clutch and brake pedals). Post it on the G. Someone there has some data on the body numbers.

    Good luck. Let us know what you come up with.
     
  18. May 15, 2008
    tnavel

    tnavel New Member

    REDDING, CA
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
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    is the frame no. on the gusset itself or next to it? if there are any pics out there of this number it would surely help thanks.
     
  19. May 15, 2008
    Bill F

    Bill F Finally running

    Hillsboro NH
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    if you post over on www.g503.com/forums they will be albe to help you find number locations.
     
  20. May 15, 2008
    CJ-X

    CJ-X Member

    Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    816
    I don't have any pics handy. But do not get the two confused. The frame number since you have a willy's is out next to the bumper on the inner part of the left frame, within inches of the bumber. It is/was on a tag secured by two rivets. If you do not see the tag maybe you can see the remains of the two rivets about 1 1/2" apart.
    The body number is on the triangular gusset made of sheet metal like the body itself. The gusset connects the lower part of the front side of the firewall to the frame on drivers and also passengers sides. The stamp is on the drivers side gusset. The number is lightly stamped on the front edge of the gusset on later mb,s and it is stamped on the left side, towards the front on older ones (probably yours). The numbers are fairly big. The best way to find them is to take a propane torch and a wire brush to remove the paint. If you sand too much you can sand away the stamped number. I will get you some pics.
     
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