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firing the engine after rebuild 134f

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by molsenice, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. Nov 21, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    235
    ok, been a long build and I set a goal of having the engine fire for thanksgiving. would be nice to here, would help the motivation level so today, I gave it a shot.

    Some back ground:
    completly rebuilt engine
    new points / condenser as the USPO lost my pertronix ignitor
    rebuild carter YF carb
    new plugs

    I am getting spark to the plugs, I poured a small amount of gas into the fuel line of the carb and the accelerator pump does squirt gas into the intake. engine turns over no problem - but nothin that would indicate any sign of life, no Burp, cough or back fire :?

    It must be a timing issue but I was so careful to get top dead center before setting the distributor. will go back and reset the dist.

    Any advice??



    On the bright side: the starter works, so does the ignition switch on the tilt sterring colum
     
  2. Nov 21, 2007
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Did you get TDC on the compression stroke?
     
  3. Nov 21, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl Jeepless in Pittsburgh Staff Member Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Nov 6, 2002
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    3,958
    X2. :iagree:

    Also, did you prime the oil pump or pack it full of Vaseline before installing it?
     
  4. Nov 21, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
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    I thought I was 100% sure on TDC when I set the dist. - now I guess I am 100% sure I want a cold beer - not so sure on the dist. need to pull the #1 plug and turn it over till the thumb gets pushed off and reset the dist.

    didn't pack the oil pump with vasoline, but did turn over the engine without the plugs in so it would prime the system


    thanks for the ideas so far, any others?
     
  5. Nov 21, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
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    well the mystery continues...

    figuring I had set the distributor when I had the head off and there was a possibility that I had set what I thought was TDC on compression, instead mabe it was exhaust, I swapped the wires 180 deg.

    This enabled me to get a couple a back fires but not run. So I pulled the coid wire and #1 spark plug to feel for TDC - no luck, so I'm thinking, WTF complet rebuild and no compression. I pull all the plugs n wires and finger check all cylinders. I get compression from only #3, time to adjust the valves. Note to self, in a long term project, don't "Think you did it" if you can't remember the broken knuckel or empty wallet at theat specific step, then double check. I will go throu and adjust the valves and double check the head tourque, thou I do remember torquing the head.

    I also noticed with all this turning over, no response from the oil gauge - could be a bad gauge, it is old as the hills, or it could be the oil pump isn't pumping - it is turning as the rotor is turning and it ties into the oil pump shaft. So I pulled the valve cover, need to adjust the valves anyway. Glad it didn't fire, she is bone dry at the top end and the filter is still dry. Beer is cold and the wife n family leave for LI fist thing Fri morning

    To be continued...
     
  6. Nov 21, 2007
    LarryD

    LarryD Member

    Gallup NM/ 4 Corners
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Messages:
    637
    Do yourself a favor and go over to the CJ3B Page and check out the tech section, there is an excellent write up titled Static Timing the F Head. It goes thru setting up for TDC#1 compression and initial timing for the distributor. After my rebuild the distributor was dead on. All I did was to prime the carb. Check It out.
     
  7. Nov 21, 2007
    LarryD

    LarryD Member

    Gallup NM/ 4 Corners
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
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    637
    After my rebuild I mounted the engine in the chassis I got the urge to hear it run. I was concerned about my rebuild skills so I took a mechanical oil pressure gage and temp gage and and mounted them on the block so I could see them when standing beside the jeep.I was instantly able to confirm good oil pressure on initial firing. It only took a few minutes to rig up but worth the peace of mind.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  8. Nov 21, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
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    will do - thanks for the tip!

    and I thought I was the first to think of this - it was hooking this up that was the last - "oh wait a minute - this could be handy for this" idea I had before dumping gas and turning the key

    Currently I have 2 concerns to dwell on over Thanksgiving that are jeep related.

    one, checking the valves - I hope this is the problem with no compression as I was about as anal as one could be on checking, re-checking at each step of the build - from grinding the valves to checking the spring pressure before install - pretty sure I skipped adjusting the valves thou as that was a time when I was triing to clean out the shop and ship the project to storage. My memory now tells me I just droped on the rocker rail and torqued her down without checking valve gap on either the intake or exhaust. Chances are I have at least one valve per cylinder staying open thus no compression

    Concern #2 is no oil being pumped - easiest fix is a new oil pump as the oil passages got thouroly blown out and I even ran pipe cleaner through them
    at this point, it is nopt a concern, but I did blow yet another "Due date" for geting this doneR)R)R):beer:R)R)
     
  9. Nov 21, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
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    I feel like an idiot and a rookie but here are my search results

    thought I searched the entire forum - Larry any help??? link?

    thanks man
     
  10. Nov 21, 2007
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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  11. Nov 21, 2007
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member Sponsor

    Mason, MI
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    Just got my Fhead running too after a rebuild. I had it running and thought I adjusted the valves correctly after I had it running. Makes a world of difference when they stay open partially:rofl: "un"adjusted them and it fired right up.

    If the engine isn't running, it might take awhile to get the oil moving by just cranking it. I don't remember if I even primed the oil pump on mine. Might have just gooped it up with engine lube from the bearings. Took a good few seconds for the pressure to register once it started turning some rpm's.
     
  12. Nov 21, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
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    thankyou Glenn:)
     
  13. Nov 21, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl Jeepless in Pittsburgh Staff Member Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    About the oil pump: unless you either used the vaseline trick or filled the pump full of oil before you installed it, you are likely to not have any oil pressure. None, nada, zip. It's a centrifugal pump and it needs a small amount of oil to be able to seal enough to draw the oil up through the pickup.

    It's a pretty easy job to just drop the oil pump off the side of the engine, fill it full of oil with a pump-can oiler and rotate the shaft a few times back and forth. Fill it with oil again and repeat. Then you leave the oil in there while you bolt the pump back on.

    Cheap insurance vs. damaging the bearings with a dry startup. DAMHIK. :oops:
     
  14. Nov 22, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
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    all good tips thankyou thankyou thankyou

    will do - not till fri - family first
     
  15. Nov 23, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
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    Valves set properly now, oil pump primed - had to come back and double check the setting of the oil pump on the 3b link - great, know I have to clean the oil off the keyboard R)
     
  16. Nov 23, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
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    oil off the key board - pump and distributor set no go on the test fire.

    will check compression with a gauge and see what I got, It did improve as the finger test now blows finger off on every cylinder.
     
  17. Nov 23, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
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    For what it is worth, - I just checked the oil filter - oil pump works - were full there R)

    just out of curiosity, how fast should the starter spin the motor?

    Seams to be about 1/2 the speed I have out of my 94 GMC, and it does die off with repeated crankings. Have a battery charger, booster on the battery, to hopefully maintain the battery throughout the test fire period as it is a marine battery I use for my boat.

    dumb question I know but just curious , thanks

    gotta go tile a floor, be back tonight
     
  18. Nov 23, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl Jeepless in Pittsburgh Staff Member Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Hmmm, it should spin fairly quickly with a good battery in there. A new engine is bound to be a bit tight at first, it will loosen up a bit with use. Sounds like you may have weak or no spark.

    Have you tried pulling one plug wire off and laying it near a ground source (block) to see if you have spark when cranking?
     
  19. Nov 23, 2007
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member Sponsor

    Portland Tn.
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    plugs are prolly toast by now. DAHIK
     
  20. Nov 23, 2007
    molsenice

    molsenice Member

    Glens Falls, NY
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
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    got great spark - new plugs gaped to 30 thousandsth as per book. - I think my next 2 things to do are 1 - try a dif. battery - 2 pull the starter and see how it turns off the engine, clamped in a vice.

    got some coughing - nothing indicating it wanting to go.

    it those don't bring me any revalations then I might try doubling up the batery ground to the block n frame - catching a couple differnt spots couldn't hurt, otherwise I'm shoting in the dark

    back to tiling the floor...
     

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