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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Sep 20, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Is the initial challenge of the engine location and the distributor access a major influence in your thoughts about what to do?
     
  2. Sep 20, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    I would go for a running driving Tbi 4.3 or 350 truck with 700r4 auto. Do it all at once from a running source then any issues aren't inherited from the engine being purchased separately.
    It your wife can drive it... it might become hers but at least it will be better funded.
    An s10 pickup sounds most manageable in your case but it sounds like the 350 would be good if you want to pull the cj. It's also a lot easier to call the wife and ask her to bring the wagon and towbar than to get picked up to drive the wagon to get the cj.

    That suburban is going to be a sad can of worms. Blown rear axle and a plow on the front... it's guaranteed abused.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  3. Sep 20, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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  4. Sep 20, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    That would definitely take care of that issue.
     
  5. Sep 20, 2020
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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  6. Sep 20, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Personally I think going through the 283, including the distributor location swap, and going through the T-90 and D-18 is the logical choice. You already have the fitment issue done, why take on another project of making something else fit. As far as the T-90 shifting being slow, I don't remember ever noticing enough difference to be an issue. The 6 speed in my Ram isn't exactly a fast shifting transmission either, but obviously it works for the application it's in.
     
  7. Sep 20, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    It’s a simple fix. The company even sells a stand in for the distributor.
     
  8. Sep 20, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    That's interesting. I assume it's a low profile "fix"?
     
    73 cj5 likes this.
  9. Sep 20, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    Yep. If you chop off the top of the distributor it’s about the same thing the company sells.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  10. Sep 20, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    That would be perfect to fix his wagon clearance issue. (y)
     
  11. Sep 20, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Of course one would think the kit came with that....apparently not.
     
  12. Sep 20, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    X2
     
    Fireball likes this.
  13. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Jul 18, 2013
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    Already regretting posting this morning....I apologize as I think I didn't explain my questions very well as they are really related to transmissions, not engine swaps etc. So let me see if I can clarify: Does anyone have any experience with swapping in a 700r4 or an AX-15, or any thoughts about those transmissions. From my research, I think those are the two best choices - but I am often wrong.

    Not necessarily if I all I do is replace the engine - but if I swap the transmission and have to deal with relocating the cross-member and floorpan mods etc, then might as well get the engine in the right spot. If I don't change the transmission, I am probably not moving the engine. The big hassles with the engine location: 1) access to the distributor - the wiper motor has to be removed to remove the distributor (and with the electric motor mount - that may be more complicated than jus the vacuum motor). And even with that, the cap has to be removed before the dist can be pulled - not a huge issue but an annoyance as one of the cap hold down screws is in the back corner of the notch out in the firewall. 2) Another big one is the oil pressure fitting is totally inaccessible, and essentially not even viewable or touchable, without removal of the intake. Those compression fittings are not the most durable or leak proof - removing an intake is a pretty big project just to access that. 3) Cannot easily remove and reinstall the valve covers with engine in place - it can be with some finagaling and squeezing, and sort of slipping them on from the side, but that makes getting them re-installed nice and clean with gasket or RTV for a good seal is difficult - and getting RTV on the rockers and on the valve train is quite possible. 4) This one is more of a concern than anything I have had happen, but with the front cradle mount - I believe the engine is centered between the frame. Whether it is or not is less important that I am worried about front driveshaft clearance with the starter - similar to a cj5 v6 issue. I see no indication of contact between the two, but not sure the front suspension has ever flexed much in the easy on-road conditions. Can certainly be solved with bump stops etc - but would be nice to be able to get some flex when needed.

    Anyway - even with all of these issues, I would probably not redo the engine location unless a transmission change was also part of the picture....Assuming all the above stuff is done right initially (with engine on a stand), consistent access to such things may not be an issues. I have not removed the VCs on the cj5 in 5 years, and I don't think I've ever removed the intake since I got it. I have replaced the oil pressure fitting a couple times.

    The driver for a transmission change is an OD and possibly and automatic. The automatic aspect is less important as the reality is Jen is not going to drive this thing much at all and I do enjoy going through the gears. A Warn OD on the D18 is viable - just looking at other options as well. Rebuild kits for a T90 and adding in an OD is like $1300 expense - I figured for that kind of expense, I might be able to find other solutions. The reality is the more I look at these other options, they are all in the $2000 plus range so it may be a moot point.

    That is why we have the Tacoma - although its also a manual, but she managed to bring it with towbar early this summer when I busted the clutch cable. She can drive a manual but hates it. The soft clutch and power brakes on the tacoma make it doable, but manual brakes and heavy clutch of the jeeps is too much. The reality is, as long as I keep the OEM brakes and some sort of mechanical clutch, she isn't going to drive it even with an automatic other than splitting time with me on long cross-country trips on open roads. I was thinking the auto might help get more buy in from her, but it doesn't.
     
  14. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    So here is my attempt to estimate pricing for rebuilding a sbc v8 - I used the pricing sheet from the shop that did most of the 225v6 rebuild.
    Total machining costs (no assembly or anything, just tanking and machine work for block and complete valve job and surfacing of the heads, crank grind and balancing the rotating assembly) is around $1000. Then add $300 to that for the rebuild kit and parts for something around $1300. There is probably some stuff I am forgetting - probably need help with wrist pins...other stuff? And I still have a set of heads with no accessory mounting options, and a questionable homemade bracket mount and set-up for the pump and alternator. And for $1300 I could easily eff up the actual assembly and waste a good engine with no warranty. I am tempted to choose to buy a crate engine for $1700 or so with warranty and move the carb and intake etc across from the 283....or maybe even spend $2200 or so for a complete long block with new intake etc...None of that affects the transmission question though.
     
  15. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    Are the issues you mention related to mating them together and making sure the two 'communicate' via whatever sensors are needed - in other words salvaging a mated pair would avoid any of those issues? And is this buying to rebuild, or buying to drop right in? 'Running' doesn't seem to do me any good - I've bought two running jeep engines (and thus paid a higher price), but in the end, both needed serious work within 3 years....Its probably me, but apparently I don't know a good used engine from one on its last legs....
     
  16. Sep 20, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    If you use a 700r4 it is critical that you get the tv cable property adjusted. A YJ drivetrain would be a good swap I think. Efi 4.0, ax15, and swap out the transfer case.
     
  17. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    YJ NP231 is drive side drop....
    typo - "tv cable"?
     
  18. Sep 20, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Dana 300 should interchange.
     
  19. Sep 20, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    I know....YJ 231 is driver drop. Google tv cable 700r4. You can read for days.
     
  20. Sep 20, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Yes like project binky take a doner that is known to be good and don't get rid of anything until 2years after your "done". Get a rusty old YJ, drive it for a year or whatever. Check the vacuum and oil pressure. If it seems like anything could be off get rid of it and try to make a buck for the time.
    On mine everything has been for an "85 k10"
    Even though I've never had one the current motor and future Transmission are both that era. Brakes are equivalent so I just make sure the bore on the master cyl is the same. Engine accessories are a huge pita.
    I don't know enough about YJs to compare but if you have a sbc with front mounts then why start over with the radiator and everything around the engine if a later sbc with 5 speed or whatever will be darn close. The 4.3 isn't a rocket but if 200hp fuel injection and a longer transmission are in the works you can use the front dress you have on any 1st gen sbc v8 or pre balance shaft 4.3 with front mounts and all. That would save a lot of time and resources. Then use one adapter to get it to the ground.
    Biggest issue I see is the Overdrive. The d18 setup isn't ideal and that could easily regear two axles instead.
     
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