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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Oct 26, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    thinking since everything is going to be new - including crank, cam shaft, c-rods, and valvetrain components - then I could put in the 231 parts. If the crank didn't need replacing I would not necessarily consider it, but since the crank is going to go as well as everything else... Whether its worth it or not...? Likely not happening anyway, just get it back to running condition. I like to think about these things though...
     
  2. Oct 26, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    I never looked at the two blocks side by side............but I suspect the rod off set of one crank versus the other crank and the location of oil passages in the even fire crank versus the odd would be a challenge.......

    If your interested in making that all happen come on out to California and buy all these NOS spare parts I have for both Even and Odd fired motors.
     
  3. Oct 26, 2016
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I have that chapter out of Pat G's book scanned... Let me know if you want some 'light' reading. If memory serves, the oil for the top end and port locations on the heads are the main difference between OF and EF. I have seen an EF crank/cam combo put in an OF block keeping the heads and everything else OF - thus converting it to an EF motor and HEI. I do not remember the specifics, but some block clearance was done (not significant) to make it work. Mr C (the guy who did it) did his own machining at the time back in the late 80s for it - so the memory is a but fuzzy :D
     
  4. Oct 28, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Got to see the block, heads and a few other pieces as it was pulled out of the tank yesterday. As this is the first engine I've gotten into its interesting to see and learn - and I might be the only person taking photos of tanked blocks but the machine shop operator is always happy to talk some shop and let me get hands on. The cylinders have a small lip at the top - I can feel it more easily than I thought with just my bare finger. The shop indicated the cylinders could probably just be honed with cross hatch and though it wouldn't perfectly remove the lip, if I was really trying to save money I might be able to go that route and re-use my pistons with new rings. In addition to that being a little bit of a cheap short-cut, the main concern is the wrist pins are extremely tight. It took two of us to get some of the pistons to pivot on the wrist pin. They definitely have to come apart to clean them and he is worried that there will be some damage trying to remove clean and re-install the wrist pins. The shop suggests boring it out fresh (to a total of .060 over) and buying new pistons and wrist pins - I tend to agree. At the moment I am tending toward pretty much replacing anything that is questionable or unknown. Certainly more expensive this way, but I don't really want to tear it all apart again in the future and hopefully it will last as long as I could ever need.
    Just because I think engines parts are cool:
    pistons and camshaft:
    [​IMG]

    heads - checked the oil passages. Question - some previous work on the engine had threaded and plugged some the oil passages that come up through the heads. According the shop that was probably done with the idea to increase pressure and push the oil up along the pushrods better. Good idea or not?
    [​IMG]

    the bottom end:
    [​IMG]

    progress continues...
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  5. Nov 9, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    While the engine shop finishes up machine work, I began working on a front brake upgrade to 11" drums (from the OEM 10"). Thanks to Chuck I got some D30 backing plates that should fit right up to my D27 and was able to source the rest of the parts from FLAPS.

    Here are the 11in brakes:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Cleaning up the backing plates - getting ready for paint:
    [​IMG]

    11inch brakes ready to go - your welcome to point out any issues:
    [​IMG]

    I went with the flat (non-finned) drums. Obviously, installing them is yet to come - hopefully this weekend. Will probably have to get some new flexible rubble brake line to connect with the cylinders - maybe the D27 hard 's' lines will work? Also working on my carb rebuild so we'll see what takes priority.
     
  6. Nov 11, 2016
    1967 CJ5A

    1967 CJ5A Mike

    Raleigh, NC
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    May 12, 2012
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    When I went to 11" drums from 10" up front, I used rubber lines that were listed for a 73. straight from the frame to the wheel cyl, no "s" tubes.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  7. Nov 13, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Yup - this is the route it looks like I will be going after doing a little test fitting and all today. Did you just remove the little bracket that is on top of the knuckle? Seems like if its not necessary to hold the rubber hose for the hard 's' line connection, then its a possible sharp edge that could rub on the rubber hose. I intend to remove that bracket unless there is something I am missing.
     
  8. Nov 14, 2016
    1967 CJ5A

    1967 CJ5A Mike

    Raleigh, NC
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    Yes, I took the bracket off too. Now that I think of it, I did have to do a small amount of grinding with a dremel on the area behind the wheel cylinder to get the hose to thread in. Nothing major though.
     
  9. Nov 14, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    Mounted the brake baking plates and connected everything up with new flexible hoses. But I can't get the drum to fit over the shoes...I have the bottom self-adjuster all the way in. Doesn't seem like the drum is quite big enough to fit over the shoes, or the shoes are too thick. Just using a tape measure, the new drums from FLAPS are identical to the old rusty drums that came with the baking plates. The new self-adjuster also looks to be identical in size to the old one. Not sure what to do next - maybe try some different drums from a different FLAPS?

    Here is a pic of my driver side front - maybe I put something together wrong?....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    wonder if I could grind a litte deeper recess in the bottoms of the shoes where the self adjusters sit to allow the shoes to come in a bit further.
    hmmm....time to call it a night and revisit tomorrow
     
  10. Nov 15, 2016
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
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    brakes look great
     
  11. Nov 15, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    thanks - just a matter of getting the drums to fit over the shoes. Dunno if the drums are wrong or if I did something wrong with the shoes - or if I can't get them to retract all the way for some reason. But it ain't gonna work as is. Might try another set of drums - have to measure a little closer, but these FLAPS drums (from NAPA) seem identical to the ones I took off the D30 along with the backing plates et al. I need to see if the take-off drums will fit over the new shoes, then I maybe I will know if its the shoes or the drums that are the problem. I already exhanged the old take-off shoes for core credit as soon as the backing plates were redone - so its hard to compare the take-off and FLAPS shoes. I did that a bit too soon as I didn't expect any issue with drum fitment!
     
  12. Nov 15, 2016
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
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    make sure the drums you purchased are machined well on the inside..
    most, many, if not ALL of the offshore caster don't smooth the inside of the drum..
    it will cut the shoe material and reduce shoe life along with increased noise..
     
  13. Nov 15, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    I should probably try to post a pic - but basically, the drums are correct. Even the old take-off drums don't freely fit over the shoes. I rechecked part numbers and all, and everything looks correct and identical to the take offs. I only need 5mm or so to get clearance. As best as I can tell, the self adjuster just won't get short enough to allow the shoes to retract quite enough. I did a little filing on the shoes where the self-adjuster sits, and I also filed on the self-adjuster trying to get it a bit shorter. At this point, I got both of the drums to fit over the shoes, but they don't turn completely free. I can turn them by hand with lots of effort as the shoes are rubbing on the inside of the drum. The drums seem pretty smooth - no obvious issues.

    I don't think I want to file on the shoes any more - maybe I can shorten the ends of the adjuster a bit more, or maybe I can find a shorter adjuster? Or I could just drive it around a bit and wear the pads down a bit. Its not much - just a few mm is all thats needded.
     
  14. Nov 15, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    More than likely your drums even though New could be slightly out of round.........or undersized.......could even be the shoes were never finished correctly. I would take the drums and shoes back and exchange them.

    Years ago this is how we fixed that Problem which was called arching the shoes........



    Arc grinding brake shoes

    Now do to asbestos dust hardly anyone still has the equipment or desire to grind these anymore
     
  15. Nov 15, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Thanks - both the right and left sets (not that there is any difference in shoes and drums) are identical and both are off exactly the same. Seems like all the options are the same no matter which FLAPS I use. I think the drums and shoes are all the same and just rebranded depending on NAPA, Adavance, Orielly etc. Each store carries the exact same part with no other options. I got these from NAPA, and they do have one main NAPA here that will turn brakes - hope they will take a look at these and check the roundness and arc.
     
  16. Nov 16, 2016
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
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    I don't think there has been asbestos in U.S. market friction in decades
     
  17. Nov 16, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    "...So asbestos is still with us. Though U.S. auto makers say they no longer use brake or clutch linings that contain any asbestos, such is NOT true for many aftermarket suppliers of replacement brake pads and shoes, and clutch linings.

    Friction products such as brake pads, shoes and clutch linings containing asbestos are NOT labeled as such because there is no law that requires manufacturers to do so. Consequently, since there is no way to know if a vehicle has asbestos brake linings or not, it is wise to treat every vehicle as though it might have asbestos linings. And even if a vehicle does not have asbestos linings, there are still concerns that other fibers used in NAO linings may pose the same long term health effects..."
    -AA1 Car website

    Interesting. And disconcerting.
     
  18. Nov 16, 2016
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    Asbestos, those who realy think that is realy dangerous are just fool. I'm living in a city that has 8 different asbestos mines (now all close), all the residues from the extraction are all around the city, when we have big wind all the dust is coming into the city and there is no body here that is affected by abestos decease. Our city does not meet any minimum of particules in the air that is accepteble to live within the law. but there is no asbestos decease here in my city.

    As for asbestos in brake, you never find another product that will have the performance when asbestos was use.
     
  19. Nov 16, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Believe what you want; I'm not going to debate it, just pointing out that asbestos was only banned in new production vehicles. It sounds like the aftermarket still may or may not utilize it.
     
    johneyboy03 likes this.
  20. Nov 17, 2016
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

    exploring the...
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    i had to trim the stationary side of some adjusters before un thread em and use a cut off wheel, a little grind on the edge to clean it up. may have to chop the threaded part a little too.
     

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