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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. May 18, 2016
    45es

    45es Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    When working on my Jeep, I often use products designed for applications outside of the automotive industry to cure a problem I am having. An example would be Rector Seal Blue, a pipe thread sealant that I have used on bolt or stud threads that thread into an engine water jacket. It is a Teflon based sealant that lubricates the threads preventing galling, is not effected by heat, oil or water. If need be, parts can be disassembled at a later date without issue. I wonder if a light coating of this on the D18 output shaft splines would work to cure that pesky shaft to yoke oil leak.
     
    Focker likes this.
  2. May 18, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Thanks guys - we will see how leak proof I can make it. Made some progress tonight after yesterday's frustration. I did remove the new output shaft seals for both the front and rear retainers - and I wasn't able to do it without damaging them. Will search FLAPS tomorrow to see what I can find - or order from the usual suppliers.
    And then I made some progress...
    [​IMG]
    These are the new Terra Low gears in the case. The intermediate gear and shaft with roller bearing is installed. The output shaft ready for the cone bearings and end play testing. It does look like I might need to create a little clearance in the case for the sliding gear. Overall feels like progress.
     
  3. May 19, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    Cool. I hope to get started on mine one soon.
     
  4. May 25, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Update - both good and frustrating as usual...

    The 3.15 Terra Low gears require shortening the 4wd shift rod by about 1/2 inch so that it won't interfere with the intermediate gear when in the 2wd position - the end of the rod that goes into the case hits the gear teeth.

    [​IMG]

    Next up I decided to grind a little off the inside of the case where the large sliding gear on the output shaft seemed to have minimal clearance under the oil pan lip when in the most rearward position (well under it when working on it upside down). It wasn't hitting, but decided it was too close for comfort and just took off a little and smooth out a bit of a ridge. Should be good to go now.

    [​IMG]

    Then I test fit everything together for endplay measurement and cleaned out all the threaded holes. Got what I thought was a nice tight 3 shims that would work and went ahead and put everything together with gaskets et al. While putting it together I wasn't able to detect any endplay - and though maybe something changed a bit with front cap attached in final form (gaskets and sealer etc). So I threw in an extra shim on the rear cap to get a little bit more endplay....

    [​IMG]

    Looks good - but the endplay is too much. I am just over .01 - that extra shim may not have been a good idea. So I might have to take the rear cap back off, clean up all the gaskets and sealant and redo it tomorrow with only the original shims. Good news is I am much faster the second, third, fourth....time doing these things. Plus while it was together, I cleaned and test fitted the parking brake and got that in better functioning shape. Gotta get some output seals from FLAPS to replace the ones I destroyed from the Novak kit as I put them on too soon (don't follow the Novak directions if you know your gonna be dry fitting and testing things a bunch).
     
  5. May 26, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    As someone's signature line says around here: if you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you ever find time to redo it correctly (or something close to that). So took apart the rear cap, cleaned all the shims up and threads etc up and re-did it better (not claiming done correctly yet). With one of the .01 shims removed, I have almost no end play (about .002"), but its definitely free and not binding. Put it all back together, and put the front DS yolk on as well - and I did put some rtv on the output shaft and yolk splines.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Waiting on the rear shaft seal from FLAPS and can get the rear companion flange and maybe drum on (not sure if I should wait on the drum until I its reattached to the T14).
     
  6. Jun 9, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Update...
    Got the D18 wrapped up a couple weeks ago before heading to Idaho.
    [​IMG]

    On to the T14:
    Disassembled the T14 using the Novak guide and FSM. I couldn't pull the rear bearing on the mainshaft with the tools at hand, but the front bearing was loose enough to wiggle by hand. So drove out the lower counter shaft and let the cluster gear drop down first. This allowed removal of the front input shaft and then removal of the mainshaft. Probably not textbook, but it worked.

    The T14 parts: I was able to take some good reference photos of the mainshaft gear and synchro assemblies before taking them apart that proved to be pretty helpful as I put them back together. I believe the previous assembly/rebuild used a grease of some sort as there was a thick, paste residue on everything, including lining the inside of the case. Lots of degreaser and and cleaning by hand all the synchronizer assemblies with the 3 little 'keys' and the gear teeth. My only other thought is that its somehow related to GL5 gear fluid (which I won't be putting back in). Lots of black gunk in really hard to reach places!
    [​IMG]

    The empty and clean case:
    [​IMG]

    Beginning to put things back together:
    Here is the lower cluster gear re-installed with new needle bearings. Muck like the D18, I tried to put some rtv sealant on the inside of the countershaft holes in the case. Seems like mine might have been leaking from there previously. The T14 case was absolutely caked with grease/oil/dirt residue. Some also comes from my rear main seal that leaks a bit.
    [​IMG]

    Assembling the mainshaft:
    1) Slide first gear on the rear half (right end in pic) of the mainshaft:
    [​IMG]

    2) 1st-Rev synchronizer ring goes on next:
    [​IMG]

    3) Then the 1st-Rev synchronizer assembly (actually, I found it much easier to put the synch ring into the assembly first, then put on the shaft) - snap ring goes on the rear of the shaft to hold everything in place.
    4) The pick also shows 2nd gear having been slide on from the front (left end in the pic) of the mainshaft:
    [​IMG]

    5) 2nd-3rd synchro assembly (including synchro blocking ring) slid in place from the front (left in pic) end of mainshaft - snap ring goes on the front of the shaft to hold in place.
    6) Pic also shows the reverse gear having been slid on the rear (right in pic) end of the shaft.
    [​IMG]

    That is where I stopped for now...Have to dissasemble and clean up the input shaft and drive gear.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  7. Jun 9, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    Cool. transmissions are really cool things.
     
  8. Jun 9, 2016
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    You are doing a fantastic job documenting this work, I appreciate it!
     
  9. Jun 10, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    A little update - continuing the T14 rebuild:

    One step I had not quite finished in the tear-down was to remove the front bearing from the input shaft. FSM procedure would call for this to be done initially, but since I didn't have a way to pull it (no special W329 tool or whatever is called), I removed the countershaft and dropped the lower cluster gear down into the case and removed the input shaft out the front with the bearing still attached. Looked like this:
    [​IMG]

    So, before I could go much farther with re-assembling the mainshaft, I had to address this as I wanted to replace the front bearing. If you don't want to replace the bearing, you can just leave it on the shaft - mine seemed better than I thought it would - but at this point its doesn't seem worth skimping. Much like the rear bearing, it doesn't take much of a 'pull' to get the bearings off the shafts - I used a simple steering wheel puller with some washers and nuts on the end behind the bearing. The rear was easy as its a short shaft, but the front input shaft requires over 10" of reach. My solution:
    [​IMG]

    If I had to do this all the time, I'd come up with something more permanent, but for $2.99 in all thread and a couple zip ties, it worked!

    Here is the drive gear removed - the oil slinger is still on the input shaft, but it slides right off. And time for lots of cleaning...
    [​IMG]

    Time to continue re-assembly - left off yesterday with the lower cluster gear/countershaft installed, and the mainshaft mostly assembled on the bench. Here is setting the mainshaft into the case on top of the lower cluster gear:
    [​IMG]

    Next I slid the 3rd gear synchro blocking ring on the front of the mainshaft:
    [​IMG]

    Next the input shaft/drive gear goes in - of course there is a set of needle bearing inside the drive gear that have to be held in place with lube and slide over the front pilot end of the mainshaft. Sorry no pics of the needle bearings - with the warm temps and vasoline there is not much time to waste with getting it together. It does really help to refrigerate the vasoline. Here is the input shaft/drive gear connected with the mainshaft - FSM/Novak:

    The photo shows the 'missing' cut-out clutch teeth on the drive gear oriented upwards, but they are supposed to be installed downward. But was able to just turn the shaft to get it on the bottomside. Not sure why that is important at the moment...have to do with when the shift forks get installed?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  10. Jun 11, 2016
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Thanks for the posts and great pics...I hope I don't have to do this anytime soon, but I'll know where to turn if I do.
     
  11. Jun 14, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Continuing the T14 rebuild:

    Next up is the front and rear bearings - check for sizing as I believe they are just a smidgen different.
    [​IMG]

    I found driving them on to be a pain - here is what I set up:
    used a 12" section of pipe with a small connector on the end that fit against the inner race of the bearing. Used an old sprinkler valve pipe with a flange on it for the rear against a block of wood and the wall (just some old junk i had laying around that happened to fit right).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Somewhere in this process of driving on the bearing - a small washer started rattling around in the bottom of the case that must have been trapped under the reverse idler gear. After looking at it a bit I decided it had to be one of the spacers against the needle bearings around countershaft. Kind of a sickening realization. So everything came apart to an empty case, and yes the countershaft was missing one of the spacers - must of slipped out when putting in the cluster gear. I redid the whole thing - It went quite a bit faster and the temps were cooler which helps with the Vaseline and needle bearings and I did not need to completely disassemble the mainshaft.

    So it did not initially want to turn correctly by hand when I moved the shift hubs - but it seems the problem was the 2nd gear blocking ring was jammed up and stuck against the 2nd gear teeth, even when the hub was moved to neutral or 3rd. After gently prying it loose all seems correct - hopefully its not damaged or have a tendency to get jammed up again. I probably had the endplay a bit too tight from driving the bearings on too much - and don't have the special spacer mentioned in the FSM.

    Next is the rear bearing adapter/retainer and spacer. Normally the bull gear would be next, but I have barrel gear for the OD and that has to wait until after attaching to the D18.
    [​IMG]
    I also temporarily put on the old front retainer that is damaged just to keep things from falling apart - hopefully the replacement is arriving this week along with my new barrel gear for the OD.
    Here it is attached to the D18 with new gasket.
    [​IMG]

    Progress I guess...starting to dread trying to get this thing back into the jeep. Today's plan is to hope the delivery truck brings the new OD gear and FBR, but realistically it will be another day or two. I have already cleaned up the fly wheel and test fitted the new clutch etc, but will finalize getting that mounted. Hopefully clean up all the gasket surfaces and hardware for the OD housing so its ready to go, and maybe wax a bunch of skis for summer storage - calling it a ski season until next fall. Time to get the jeep out!
     
  12. Jun 14, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    This is great stuff. The boss for the D18 on the back of the T-14 is cast integrally to the T-14 case? Thats why the D18 large hole is the large hole it is? For my purposes I needed an adapter to fit the D18 to my Novak adapter and its called a t-90 to D20 adapter and it looks just like the back of your T14 case. Was it difficult to mate the d18 to the T-14? Was the fit real tight?
    Great pics and explanation.
     
  13. Jun 14, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Chris - I think what you are looking on the back of the T14 is the bearing adapter/retainer. It slides on/over the output shaft by hand and fits over the rear bearing with snap-ring and into a small circular groove on the back of the T14 case that goes around the bearing. Its essentially held in place by the D18 when bolted together. The small spacer ring (next to my finger in the pic above) slides inside of that bearing adapter and against the bearing. This is the only pic I have of it - it is on the upper left of the blue towel with the ring spacer sitting inside of it:
    [​IMG]

    Fitting them together was realatively easy - I put some minimal RTV on the T14 side of gasket, then put the gasket on to the T14, then some thin Rtv on the exposed D18 side of the gasket and wiggled them slowly into place. It does help to 'dry-fit' it first as you may need some little blocks of whatever happens to be sitting on the table to help stabilize while lining everything up. They will definitely not line up with both sitting naturally flat on the table or floor - but they slide right together without much effort - no binding or sticking. Two of the mount holes penetrate through the cases (one each into the T14 and D18) - so I made sure those got thread sealed.
     
  14. Jun 14, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    Thanks a lot for the pic and the clarification.
     
  15. Jun 21, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Decided to replace the 4 driveshaft u-joints while waiting for the correct barrel gear for my OD with Terra Low Gears. Not much exciting here other than that I find replacing u-joints to be a real PIA for something that seems so simple. Since the driveshafts are already out with the D18/T14 rebuild - seemed like a good time to do. I have no idea when they were last replaced as it would have been from the PO.

    I have the V6, so it has the smaller front driveshaft ujoint. For reference or record sake I used Spicer 5-153X for the rear and the Moog/Precision 361 for the front (I couldn't get the equivalent spicer 5-248X).

    good info in this thread: Ujoint small vs. Large Debate.

    One thing to note - the caps are not the exact same size for the 361 on the front. It does matter which go into the drive shaft and which go into the yoke.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Time to go put the clutch in and then wait for Herm to ship the gear....
     
  16. Jun 21, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Some of the Fords run a Ujoint that has two different sizes of caps. The last time I had to do a ujoint was SW of Moab on my friends Jeep. I had two in my tool box. He used both after he dropped parts from the first one in the sand. It involved a rock, hammer and a socket.
     
  17. Jun 28, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Still waiting on the gear from Herm - starting to get frustrated as he has not responded to my emails - but I also know he's not always the most digitally connected. So I will give him a call later today (update - he hopes to get is shipped it out later this week). In the mean-time I picked up this Ramsey 8000lbs winch on CL and been getting it set up on the CJ:
    [​IMG]

    It did power in and out and freespool with some effort. Cable is a little funky but can be used. It came with the generic mounting plate - think he had used it on a long gone YJ and had been sitting in the garage for 15 years.

    So I made some mounting brackets out of some scrap 4"x4"x1/4" angle iron. Probably a bit too much but the price was right. I am not much of a fabricator so this process was slow but worked out okay. Here are the front frame horns - don't know if these are standard frame holes or from a PO, but I used the 2 smaller (1/2") holes (2nd and 4th front front in pic):
    [​IMG]

    Here is a rough test of the angle brackets:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I trimmed the brackets a bit for aesthetic purposes - probably could have trimmed the bottom of the vertical edge as it hangs a bit below the frame, but does not interfere with the shackles:
    [​IMG]

    I also had to cut the ends of the mount plate down to the proper width to fit the frame horns - beginner mistake made here - My frame horns are 29" apart from outside to outside of the frame - so that is what I cut. Forgot to leave an extra 1/4" to each side so it mount flush with the vertical edge of the brackets. Just cosmetic.
    [​IMG]

    Also straightened and freed up the roller fairlead:
    [​IMG]

    Here is the plate set-up with angle brackets and tow hooks added on as well - the tow hooks also bolt through the angle brackets for some extra strength:

    [​IMG]

    Next was the solenoids: I wanted to try and put them somewhere slightly protected and they were already separate from the winch and plate. So I put them on the inside of the right fender (I run a internally regulated alternator so the voltage regulator is not longer mounted there).
    [​IMG]

    I put everything on the jeep - but I need to get some better cables for battery connections and then I will get some final photos up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  18. Jun 28, 2016
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Your fab work looks great from here. (y)
     
  19. Jun 28, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Well - hooked up the cables and....nothing! Just last week I hooked it up to my battery and it worked fine (at least with no load). Tried my truck battery with it running just to make sure it wasn't the jeep battery and nothing. Both solenoids click just fine, and using my voltmeter, I get over 12V across the winch terminals. I even hooked the battery up directly to the terminals and still nothing. I got a spark against the outer housing by mistake but don't think that means much.

    SO...trying to take the motor out and see, but of course one of the two bolts that hold the motor in the housing is completely frozen and the head is rounded off and mangled (of which I added to the mangling with some vice grips). So....as usual its almost there and then it all falls apart. I got a jeep that I can't drive for the last 2 months and will be at least 2 more weeks if all goes well (of course that rarely happens) and a potentially wasted winch (not to mention my cash).
     
  20. Jun 30, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Well - since I am not making progress with the Tera Lows given the new information about the Husky gears inside of my Warn OD - seemed like I might as well get something positive accomplished. So I worked on the winch a bit - I figured since it ran a bunch just last week that seemed like the motor had a chance of being good. So took things apart, cleaned them up, adjusted the motor terminals which were corroded and loose, removed a bunch of grime and stiff grease and put in some new grease. I also unwrapped the cable to check it completely out and the cut off the frayed end on the winch end.
    [​IMG]

    Things seem to be working again! It does seem critical to ensure the 12V leads do not touch the motor housing - got a little sparking at first and had to add a nut spacer to give the batter cable leads some relief from the housing. That may have been most of my problem previously. Mounted up the plate and winch:
    [​IMG]

    As you can see - the REP is a bit asymmetrical. The passenger side is the motor and it sticks out much farther to the side than the driver side clutch housing. Given the the tow hooks are just inside the bracket mounts (just inside the frame rails), there is not a lot clearance between the hook and the 12V lead. If I were to do it over again, I would have figured a way to move the hooks farther to the outside. But the one on the left should be fine and the one on the right will work if the user is aware and a bit careful. Probably use the left one whenever possible - and might eventually redesign the hook mounts to give more room.
    Here is the winch with the cable cleaned up and neatly wrapped back on the drum - this was a bit of a hassle given at least 15 years its been stored on the drum in a mess.
    [​IMG]

    Finally, I put a cover over the solenoids on the inside of the fender - don't know if this was completely necessary given its already in the engine bay - but can't hurt and its down near the bottom of the fender, so this may help keep some water and dirt off it.
    [​IMG]

    I like the overall low profile of the winch - not that I would turn down an 8274 - and that the solenoid box is a little out of the way. The wired controller does plug in at the front bumper and not at the solenoid box as well. It is also a permanent magnet motor which helps keep the overall amp draw down compared to a series wound motor. The jeep can't move under its own engine power right now - but it could winch its way somewhere if the battery will hold out! A couple more pics:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
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