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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Mar 17, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    Yes and yes. Sounds like you are on the right track.
     
  2. Mar 17, 2019
    mike starck

    mike starck Sponsor Sponsor

    salem,oregon
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    Jun 22, 2006
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    Great write up and looks like you should be good with gear pattern after setting the .009" backlash. Be sure to check for runout on the ring gear and new carrier. Nice looking unit should be dead on.
     
  3. Mar 17, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Jul 18, 2013
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    1,910
    A few more pics of gear pattern - this is what I am going to try and match when I put it back together. Centered between top and root and a bit towards the toe:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Mar 17, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    1,910
    Also got the axle shafts pulled...
    Step 1 - remove the little disc/cover to open up the access through the flanged axle end to get to the mounting nuts:
    [​IMG]

    Step 2 - you can then remove the nuts using the access hole (I need to find the torque spec for these when reassembling, but this really helped to put the impact gun on):
    [​IMG]

    Step 3 - I wasn't able to just hand pull the axle shafts out, so I put the drum on backwards with a few of the lug nuts leaving some room for the drum to slide, and with a couple of bumps it came right out.
    [​IMG]

    Step 4 - With the axle shaft removed, the brake backing plate with all the hardware can be slid right off the mounting bolts...and you can then order all the stuff you need for rebuilding the brakes...I'd like to put 11" on the rear, but will probably just fix up these 10"ers - it doesn't look like they have been adjusting properly (and maybe the driver side cylinder was froze up) so they probably haven't been helping much....The 11" I have on the front do most if not all the work.
    [​IMG]

    With brake backing plate removed:
    [​IMG]

    And just because I had never looked down an axle housing...
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    homersdog, Rich M., 47v6 and 5 others like this.
  5. Mar 18, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    1,910
    Update...pulled the differential case out....

    Remove the carrier bearing caps - I did mark these (as well as noted previous marks) to keep them in the exact same orientation when they go back on...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Prying the case out of the housing...this was a bit tricky as I didn't want to damage anything (especially the ring gear teeth). This is one of those things that looks easy on the vids and turns out to be surprisingly a PITA.
    [​IMG]

    The empty housing:
    [​IMG]

    And the differential case....
    [​IMG]

    So next up I need to remove the ring gear....and is there any way to remove those old bearings from the Trac Lok case without damaging them, or the shims behind them?
     
    homersdog likes this.
  6. Mar 18, 2019
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Sponsor Sponsor

    redding ca.
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    Dec 8, 2007
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    I dont have a picture but I made a hook out of 3/8 cold roll that looks like a shepherds hook on one end large enough to go around the Case at the spider gears and has a handle around a foot long to help in lifting the case out
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    FinoCJ likes this.
  7. Mar 18, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    1,910
    Got the ring gear separated from the Trac Lok case....used some door hing pins to gently knock the ring gear down and off the case...It was not a very tight press fit.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Was going to polish up the ring gear mounting surface on the new Eaton case and pull the ring gear up tight on the mounting surface, but may have run into a an issue with the Eaton case (seems to have a bent tab on the exterior that I don't think serves much purpose)...will have to call them tomorrow and see...Its still good to make some small progress...
     
    Danefraz, 47v6 and Bowbender like this.
  8. Mar 19, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    1,910
    Speed bump...the broken tab on the reluctor ring is needed to keep the amount of ring rotation to 1/2 turn (or something like that) and protects the wires from getting twisted out from too much rotation. I ordered it through Northridge 4x4 (never used them before, but a member of my local 4x4 club is their store manager here in Denver and has helped me out a bit) and they say its happened before and I should be able to get a replacement...they said they have welded it back on for their own installs on customer jeeps, but I decided that would be a bit too risky to void the warranty on something this pricey...patience...
     
  9. Mar 19, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    Really tough to get the carrier bearings off without damage, at a minimum, the shims are going to pay the price.
     
  10. Mar 19, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    really trying not to damage the shims...in any case, I need to get the existing carrier bearings off so I can see what amount of shims was used on each side....so what is the best method for removing them? (one video I saw uses a clamshell bearing remover which looks great but probably not in my range). I can use a bearing separator and puller set I think...I just don't want to damage the end of the case where the spline axle shafts slide into.
     
  11. Mar 19, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member Sponsor

    Falcon, CO
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    Your not gonna like my answer - I used a press and adapter to pull them. It might be worth checking some shops and see if they would press them off for you - I've taken a few things in and had them do things like that. Its easy for them as they have the proper tools and setups. I think the last one I paid $40 and he even honed the old bearings for a setup set for me.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  12. Mar 19, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    You can usually get them with a bearing separator/puller as you mentioned, but clamping it in there good enough to hang on to the inner part of the bearing usually buggers-up the shims. Not a big deal as you can still keep track of them, measure each one, add up the total and use new shims to get the right shim pack on each side. Shims are cheap.

    There is also a jaw-type carrier bearing puller, but the carrier has to have opposing cut-outs on each side of the bearing to get the jaws in there (can't remember if the Trac Lok has the cut-outs or not). This method is also tough on shims.

    Either puller is going to have a pressure screw that needs to put pressure on the center where the axle splines are. A HF bearing and seal driver kit should have a driver disk in there close to the right size.

    Seal Driver Kit 18 Pc
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  13. Mar 19, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    I have done this before for other things as well...and was thinking this would be the best option this time around. I think I paid $20 to get some bearing races pressed in and out a few years ago for another project.

    I looked for this (as it was mentioned in the rebuild video you posted) - but doesn't look like it has them...always worth some more investigating...I got a bit distracted by the broken tab on the e-locker case and am trying to get that replaced.
    Just spent the last hour searching HF and other tool suppliers thinking the same combination of stuff could work - I need a seal/race driver anyway...should have gotten one when I rebuilt the transmission/TC but I did those the hard way with homemade remedies and old sockets etc. Thinking something like this...
    10 Piece Bearing Race and Seal Driver Set
     
  14. Mar 19, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    More thinking aloud...I have been very hesitant to pull the pinon - In theory I don't have to to pull the pinon, but as I am going to replace the carrier bearings, I feel like leaving an unknown like the condition of pinon bearing is a bit concerning. In other words, if I've come this far, I probably should change the pinon bearing and seal as well. I am worried this will open up a whole can of worms with getting the gears set back up, but seems like there is a good chance I can just match the existing shims for the pinon depth...And then there is the whole 'in theory' vs 'reality'....
     
  15. Mar 19, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    If you are willing to spend a little more, one of these kits is amazingly handy just for the sheer number of pucks/sizes. Especially if you do pull the pinion and bearing races. The pinion races in a flanged 44 have very little exposure showing to drive the cup out and no cutouts, you need a puck that fits perfectly.

    50pc Bearing Seal Driver Tool kit 18-65mm Custom Bushing Bearing Hydraulic Press 711221800330 | eBay

    I know you use your CJ alot, new bearings is cheap insurance since you have it all apart. If you do go with new carrier bearings, let me know and I can send you my set-up bearings.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  16. Mar 19, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    starting to feel this way as well...are you using set up bearings for the pinon as well?
     
  17. Mar 19, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    No sir. The pinion depth on that 44 is set by shims under the inner cup. The new inner pinion bearing is pressed directly on the pinion (no shims). Pinion preload is set by shims under the outer bearing. It is easy enough to drive the pinion out without damaging anything if you need a few attempts to get the preload right. Also easy to drive the inner cup out without damaging the shims if you have the right size driver/puck.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  18. Mar 19, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    Going to have to study pinon work a bit more...I have spend most of my time dealing with the case and carrier bearings, backlash etc. Going have to learn a bit more about measuring the pre-load (resistance to turning the pinon iirc). I've see some cool vids showing nice ways to measure the pinon depth using a true flat bar across the bearing cap mating sufaces on the housing...but I don't know that I have any accurate way to do that with the tools I have. Would end up doing it by starting with whatever shims are there now, and then changing it if needed based on gear mesh pattern?

    I made a few calls (seems like its easier to 'chat' online with customer service personnel than talk on the phone) to eaton and northridge 4x4. I have a replacement part coming so that should be take care of the broken tab issue. Here is what was broken:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So, between waiting for the replacement part to come in, and I am heading out of town to Montana for 10days of work, its going to be a bit before more progress is made. Will give me some time to think if its worth going all out and replacing all the bearings etc. There is no reason to change the axle unit bearings is there? Those look like a complete PITA to replace!
     
  19. Mar 19, 2019
    45es

    45es Sponsor Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    You indicated Northridge 4x4 does installs. I should think they would have the necessary bearing puller that you need. Since they have an outlet there in Denver, have you asked them if you were to bring your case into their shop, would they pull the bearings for you?
     
  20. Mar 20, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    1,910
    FWIW, After closer inspection today...I did find the small slots in the Trac-lok housing that allow for a jaw style puller...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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