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Fertilizer Blasting???

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by w3srl, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. Feb 15, 2005
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,275
    Ok, my brother-in-law just laid a whopper on me. He's a confirmed Mopar fanatic, and he always has more than 3 projects in various states of 'progress'. :rofl: This is also the guy who was sick enough to drop a built 440 into a '71 Demon and call it his daily driver. :D

    Welp, last night he called me and said that he had just had his '78 Ramcharger tub 'fertilizer blasted'. When I told him I didn't know what he meant, he patiently explained (as to a backward child) how using fertilizer to blast a body shell was far superior to using baking soda (soda ash) because it didn't change the pH of the base metal. Apparently, someone told him and his buddies that neutralizing the alkaline characteristics of the soda blast required a mild acid (vinegar) solution that would then oxidize (rust) the sheetmetal. He claims that the fertilizer doesn't have this problem.

    Guys? Comments?
     
  2. Feb 15, 2005
    tdobson

    tdobson Tom

    Hampton, Va.
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Messages:
    65
    Sounds like bull fertilizer to me....but I could be wrong
     
  3. Feb 15, 2005
    jd7

    jd7 Sponsor

    Nacogdoches,Texas
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
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    1,745
    seems like anything that fertilizer touched that I saw rusted almost immediatly
     
  4. Feb 15, 2005
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sep 21, 2002
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    12,367
    Hmmm. I wonder if using Ironite to blast with would fill in rust pits. :D
     
  5. Feb 15, 2005
    michigan_pinstripes

    michigan_pinstripes I'm not lost, I'm wandering

    Clarkston MI...
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
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    605
    I've never heard that either. There is something to be said for surface PH balance as all bare steel oxydizes or changes properties immediately (you just can't see it). The only thing that is important is how long bare steel is exposed to oxygen which contains moisture. Metal prep (acid prep) will remove surface oxidation you can't see. it also etches the steel for better adhesion and leaves a zinc phosphate film to prevent further moisture from contacting the steel. there are several brands out there and even POR offers a prewash that does the same thing.

    It is kind of strange to metal prep, then wash the bare steel with water to neutralize. That is where the protective properties works. It's really not bare.

    So, this is a stretch and just an unproven theory I have.... Fertilizer could very well be harmless as long as you finish sand the metal and acid etch as normal. It must be a mild fertilizer?

    I'd like to see more info ;)
     
  6. Feb 15, 2005
    Hawk62cj5

    Hawk62cj5 Captain of OldSchool

    Brodnax Va.
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    694
    I deal with fertilzer every day , and I farmed for 6 years , but I never heard of it used as a cleaning matrial. From every thing I ever seen fertilizer do , getting rid of rust is not at the top of the list ,normally it eats though metal very quikly. Like the guy said before most fertilizer has a high acid content , some more then others . Alot of formalations are also high is sulfur and salt content. If you are doing it for the acid content I can help you out there I can look up which one has the lowest PH (highest acid) .HTH BTW if you need some I have only 150 tons on hand right now ;)
     
  7. Feb 15, 2005
    jhuey

    jhuey Michigan Jeeper!

    Indian River...
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    415
    Kind of along those lines www.rustbusters.com Took them 20 years to figure out how to perfect a wire feed spray welder. Looks interesting.
     
  8. Feb 15, 2005
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member

    Portland Tn.
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    4,348
    Wallnuts.
     
  9. Feb 16, 2005
    CT

    CT Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
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    I hope they blased it in his garden. Would be great for the watermelons this summer.
     
  10. Feb 16, 2005
    spud

    spud Nope..it's not finished!

    Augusta Co. Virginia
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
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    311
    This discussion sprouts a question regaurding POR-15. In another post concerning sand blasting, I was told not to use POR on a freshly blasted frame as it is designed to be applied to a rusted surface. With this in mind, would it be logical to sand blast, then allow that brown film of rust to form and then apply the POR? Sounds stupid at first, but the blasting smooths the finish, then the POR goes on a surface it was created for. Am I making any sense????
     
  11. Feb 16, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    POR15 has instructions for fresh metal. Thought it was to use phosphoric acid on it?
     
  12. Feb 16, 2005
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    POR sells an etching agen (Metal Ready?) for use on new/sandblasted metal. I used it on my Bantam.
     
  13. Feb 16, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    9,221
    Metal Ready = Phosphoric Acid IIRC.
     
  14. Feb 16, 2005
    michigan_pinstripes

    michigan_pinstripes I'm not lost, I'm wandering

    Clarkston MI...
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
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    605
    Colin,

    Rust can't be effectively covered up or "neutralized". There are tons of products out there that claim to "change" the physical properties of rust. This is misleading. They may be able to slow the clock but "cancer" still hasn't been removed and continues to spread.

    The POR product will essentially "eat" rust to shiney metal if left there long enough. Like all other "metal prep" etch products --The biggest benefit is the zinc phosphate film that is left behind after rinsing and the added adhesion.

    After blasting, I would absolutely use the metal prep and rinse immediately. It doesn't need to be etched further but you want the zinc benefits.
     
  15. Feb 16, 2005
    spud

    spud Nope..it's not finished!

    Augusta Co. Virginia
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
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    311
    Thanks jon, I'm just dense at times but I think I'm clear on it now. POR is so expensive that I want to get it right the first time.
     
  16. Feb 21, 2005
    181jeep

    181jeep Banned

    central valley, ca
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    Feb 3, 2004
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    Seems a guy named Tim Mcveigh was really into "fertilizer Blasting"
     
  17. Feb 21, 2005
    willysnut

    willysnut Banned

    Newnan, Ga.
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    654
    :shock: I'm having trouble with this whole fertilizer blasting thing. I've picked up every dried cow patty in the county and have a stack bigger than my house. :( I just can't figger out how to toss'em fast enough to get them to blast away rust. I'm having breakage problems when I throw them. Oh yeah, Mr. Smith fed his cows whole corn- will that help remove rust or should I sort the patties with corn in them out? :rofl: :beer: :hurrican: R) R)
     
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