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Drive Train Position

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by willow green, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Jul 12, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
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    63
    Hi All, I have just found time to dig into my 1967 V6 CJ5,(I'M finally retired!) and I started to tinker with the trans tunnel , the shift boot was non usable, so i started to remove it when i noticed that it was installed 90 deg. from the way it was supposed to be, straight edges were top and bottom not left and right. No big deal I thought, but when I removed it I noticed that the shifter was not positioned in the center of the hole in the tunnel, instead it was about 1" back towards the rear of the hole. NOW I'M CONCERNED.
    My jeep is equipped with a Warn overdrive probably installed by PO. The tunnel has an area for the OD. but has been cut terribly so I am going to clean that up.
    Back to the drive train. I have been driving the jeep for a year or so on and off, and have no complaints about the drive ability, but I am trying to figure out why the tranny doesn't line up in the center of the tunnel.
    I have looked at the engine area and noticed that the left bank valve cover is hitting the firewall, I'm getting MORE CONCERNED!. Seems like the entire drive train needs to move forward about 1",or is the body out of alignment or not properly installed? Did someone do a lousy engine swap?. Please try to help me with some clues as to what further inspections or things i need to do to determine what is wrong with this jeep!

    Thanks in Advance, Vince in Wa.
     
  2. Jul 12, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Hi Vince,

    Pictures will help. Pics of the motor mounts, transmission mounts, crossmember where it attached to the frame... These will all be clues to help our eagle-eyes find the issues.
     
  3. Jul 12, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
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    63
    I'm really new at this jeep stuff, I thought muscle cars were tough, I do not own a cell phone, but I do have a digital camera, so as soon as I can I will take my best shots and then learn how to post them. I really love this jeep, when someone says jeep, the picture I get is the CJ5.
     
    sterlclan and ITLKSEZ like this.
  4. Jul 13, 2017
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    check transmission mount . x2 on pictures
     
  5. Jul 13, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Hi Vince - The first thing I would do is determine if this Jeep has the original engine and transmission. I have never heard of anyone cutting the tunnel to accommodate the overdrive. A hole for the shifter, yes.

    A '67 with a 225 should have a T-86 transmission. You should be able to identify the transmission using the info on this page Jeeptech.com's Jeep Transmission Page and here The Novak Guide to the Borg-Warner T86 Transmission You can also look at engine casting numbers using the info here https://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/BuickV6CastingNumbersandInternalSpecs.pdf

    Also, a V6 equipped Jeep should have the V6 badges. There may also be a difference in the VIN number. Check the VIN number document in the sticky at the top of the forum. Final drive ratio should be 3.73 or 4.88. A 4-cylinder Jeep would have been 5.38 or 4.27. Check the tags on the axles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  6. Jul 13, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
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    That is a lot to check, so it may be a little while before I get back to this post. In the meantime I checked the motor mounts, all looks good.
    Where the V6 badges go, PO filled them in with body filler as is evidenced by body filler protruding through the holes for pins on the badges.
    I am going to take pics tonight as my wife has a good cell phone, all I have to do is figure how to get them on this post, I am very old school.
    Will also do some research on vin #, I have found a set of #s on the pass side of jeep, I'LL RECORD THEM AS WELL.

    Thanks so much everyone,Vince (please be patient as I learn this jeep)
     
    cookieman likes this.
  7. Jul 13, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
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    I did some searching and came up with the following numbers:
    1.) VIN# 8305A219325
    2.) # on pass. side frame 219325
    3.) Transmission# T86 A or AA?
    4.) Right Side Of Block K N H On the boss.
    H 8 <These were above Block casting #
    5.) Block Casting# GM 1381623
    6.) Intake Casting # B-1376398-E
    7.) Transmission Adapter# 941185 It also has stamped below the number N C 3

    I could not find a casting # for the heads

    Tim, I should have been more clear concerning the hole for the Overdrive. The floor of the jeep has a relief in it for the OD, and the transmission cover fits over it, only the cover had no hole where the floor did, so PO cut the cover to allow the shifter to be installed, and did a terrible job. It had a plastic piece to act as a boot, which was crumbled away.

    Block Casting # is for 1967-1974 that is as close as the above mentioned link gives me.

    Vin number equates to the following:
    83= Universal jeep
    05= open body
    A= V6 225 ci.
    219325= Seq. Serial#

    You Guys are teaching me volumes,

    Thanks, Vince
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  8. Jul 13, 2017
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Remove the valve covers and you will see them.
     
  9. Jul 13, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Block number tells you it's a Jeep-era 225 (ie not a pre-Jeep Buick motor and not a 231). Fits with the VIN. T-86A (or AA) is right for that Jeep too. 941185 is a Jeep PN - I don't have that old a book, but it's definitely a Kaiser era number. Looks totally legit so far.
     
  10. Jul 16, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
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  11. Jul 16, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
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    Attached Files:

  12. Jul 16, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    That's a pretty good opening for the overdrive shift lever.
    Compared to hundreds of screwed up ones I've seen.
    Put a boot over it and call it good.
     
  13. Jul 16, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
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    Crossmember
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Jul 16, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    Everything there looks normal and factory.
     
  15. Jul 16, 2017
    willow green

    willow green Member

    Yakima,Wasington
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    Man, I had all sorts of problems trying to post pics. The I PHONE kept saying error, or file too large so I gave up.
    That being said a couple of photos did come through though.
    First photo is a very hacked up(IMO) OD hole. Second is drivers side cross member, what you can't see is the rear of the cm is full of holes drilled by who knows.The ps cm is exactly the same as ds cm. Notice that the trans shift boot is on 90 deg. out also.
    Somewhere in there is a pic of my jeep, be it small.(sorry bout that, but I am not very smart around I Phones.)
    I took many more pics, but it probably would take me a month to try to get them posted! It looks like the body may have been moved forward possibly, as I don't know anybody that would dent in a valve cover on purpose to make the engine fit.
     
  16. Jul 17, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    The aftermarket replacement for the shift stalk boot is terrible quality. It will tear nearly as soon as you install it. I'm using this one - not for Jeep, but does not tear - Amazon.com: Mr. Gasket 1651 Shifter Boot: Automotive

    Not sure what trouble you are having with picture posting, but we have several articles about how to post pictures in the help forum http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?forums/forum-help-and-testing.11/

    Typically the forum will not host your pictures - it costs money to buy storage to host pictures, and the forum is funded by donations, not advertising ... If you host the pictures somewhere then you can either link to them or embed them with a "hot link." Trying to drag and drop into the forum posts usually won't work. If you have a whole bunch of pictures, it's probably best to host them somewhere and link to the gallery. We like looking at pictures of Jeeps - members will go there and look through your gallery.

    That's a good looking Jeep. I'd like to see more about why you think the body is not aligned with the frame. The rear edge of the body should match the rear cross member, and the grille bolt to the center of the front cross member.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  17. Jul 17, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    T-86 had crossmember spacers? Sure seems like that might be the cause for the valve cover hitting? Too many?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  18. Jul 17, 2017
    CJ Joe

    CJ Joe Truckhaven Tough!

    Pinon Hills, CA
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    And would that also cause the shifter to appear to be further back because of the greater drivetrain angle? I've seen two crossmember spacers but not four, but not sure how many are correct for this configuration.

    I had my jeep for years before I spotted x-member spacers and realized mine didn't have any.
     
  19. Jul 17, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    It seems to me that since the shifter would be lower the tilt would do just that, make it appear to be further back. I thought only the 4 speed required spacers?
     
  20. Jul 17, 2017
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    There are a couple of different designs of the transmission shift tunnel covers, and they put the shift boot in a slightly different location. I'm not sure which design is for which application, but I think that might explain your shift boot discrepancy.
     
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