direction finalized...

hey guys. i havent been on in a while, but i do sneak in and view the want adds from time to time.

ive been lacking direction. i have the oddfire that i built and ran, but i went to iraq nd it got flooded in 4 different hurricanes. i took it apart, then went back to iraq and for some reason, all the fluids drained into the oil. again, i took it apart, cleaned it up and put it back together. the rod caps got mixed and the motor keeps locking up and thats as far as i got with it in years.
i have a buick 350 i thought about putting in, but i dunno...i have 4 even fire motors..but i dunno. i have a buick grand national turbo setup from an 84 3.8 SFI TURBO which i bought in 08, but the wiring harness and whatnot eluded me until last year. i finally found them at $750 each plus all the other stuff. too much.
i have been debating on making an even fire propane buggy, or even fire with the oddfire flywheel....i dont know.

anyway, finally, on ebay yesterday, i found a guy who had a brand new harness he aquired in a trade. engine harness and fuel injector harness, plus extra turbo, 2 computers and a mass air flow sensor. $400...
thats it!!! woot! paypal and its mine! it should be here in a couple weeks. i called and chatted them to make sure its what i needed and received wife approval.

finally!!!
heres what i have going in my jeep and the direction we are taking it.

3.8 grand national SFI TURBO
SM-420
Dana 18
Dana 30 disk 4.27
Dana 44 4.27
holbrook long travel suspension
33" hercules (or something)

i might be able to swing that 1/2 cab posted in the forums when i get an answer...

we are going to paint it exactly like the 84 buick grand national (nick named Darth Vader for a reason) and tint it out. (yes, i know black gets hot, but hey...)
i am putting the GN emblems on it along with the 3.8SFITURBO emblems.
a 3.8 turbo was never offered in the 68 nor was the grand national package, but if it were, it might look like what we are building.
in 87, the GN ran low 12's in a 4000 lb car. this is a 2000 lb jeep? should be able to pass when needed.

i am going to put the 10 speed gear switch on the throttle so i can click it up a notch and not hit the gas pedal with my foot and spool the turbo (or devise a way to put pressure on the waste gate to hold it in bypass).

here is the paint scheme..
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...iIIiY2AWXqIDgCA&sqi=2&ved=0CEAQ9QEwAg&dur=946

but imagine mud tires... =)

anyway, i have to take mine down to frame to get it cleaned up and welded. will include pics. =)

 

So this is what you are putting into a rock crawler?

 

I have to admit, I'm curious to see what takes shape. I like most of the plan. Not to sure about a GN motor with an SM-420...

That motor in front of an auto? Oh heck ya! In the sand or deep mud? Oh heck ya!

 

I agree. I don't think you can shift a 420 fast enough for good wheel spin (Sand or mud) and the engine doesn't lend itself to crawling. I would look at a turbo 350 auto or 4 speed Muncie/Saginaw.

 

Sweet! I almost got my hands on this turbo that had already set up for the 225 (with intake manifold, and intercooler)...just didn't have the funds at the right time I like to think it was a blessing in disguise, and I'm sticking to that *sniff*

 

My hot air sits in front of a T 86 a. Mechanically the switch is easy. Turbo motor fits like a glove. Heavy odd fire flywheel bolts right up to turbo crank. You will meed custom exhaust. I originally ran the reversed cast manifold on driver side and the hot air header on passenger side. I was lucky enough to get the engine harness with the block and tubo and accessories. Put in cruise and ac just for fun. Maybe convert compressor to be on board air one day. If you pm me i can help with some tips learned the hard way. You might have better luck than me, but I have never been able to build boost with a manual transmission. The 700r4 alloowed that. The road manners of the jeep are impressive. It will cruise along as smooth as silk. If you depress the skinny pedal aggressively, you can easily get 15 lbs boost vey quickly in 2nd, 3rd and od 2nd. Much more boost runs the risk of blowing a gasket or the top out of the intake. Factory setting was 5 or 6 lb. boost. I personally don't flog this jeep in the mud but have seen this combo work well in mud bogging. I would recommend brake and steering box upgrade.

 

My hot air sits in front of a T 86 a. Mechanically the switch is easy. Turbo motor fits like a glove. Heavy odd fire flywheel bolts right up to turbo crank. You will meed custom exhaust. I originally ran the reversed cast manifold on driver side and the hot air header on passenger side. I was lucky enough to get the engine harness with the block and tubo and accessories. Put in cruise and ac just for fun. Maybe convert compressor to be on board air one day. If you pm me i can help with some tips learned the hard way. You might have better luck than me, but I have never been able to build boost with a manual transmission. The 700r4 alloowed that. The road manners of the jeep are impressive. It will cruise along as smooth as silk. If you depress the skinny pedal aggressively, you can easily get 15 lbs boost vey quickly in 2nd, 3rd and od 2nd. Much more boost runs the risk of blowing a gasket or the top out of the intake. Factory setting was 5 or 6 lb. boost. I personally don't flog this jeep in the mud but have seen this combo work well in mud bogging. I would recommend brake and steering box upgrade.

 

Love to see some pictures of that Hot Air motor in that short CJ-5 with the Turbo in the back................got to be tight in that engine compartment. Did you use the sequential port fuel injection and the scattered Ignition?

 

Used the factory rail and upgraded to green stripe (30 lb.) injectors bought used. Had em flowed and balanced. No problems. The V6 fuel return circuit comes in handy here. You will need to have the return port on tank enlarged to 5/16 or you will not be able to lower fuel pressure below 60 lbs - ask me how I know. You will need high pressure electric fuel pump. Many choices in pumps. I am running the stock waste spark ignition. I have upgraded the coilpack/ignition and computer to 86/87 version. When I was putting together this project, I was told I needed a custom chip for ECM because of running manual tranny vs auto. Obtained same from Caspers electronics. It is a "thumb wheel" chip that allows lots of leeway in tuning. More data off 86/87 computer and parts are/were cheaper than 84/85. I will send you some picks or post here if others are interested (as soo as I figure out how to do it again).

 

Thanks.............. either post them here or PM me.

 

Still having tech problems with attaching photos.

 

yes, it is going into a rock crawler, but its a street jeep that goes into the rocks not a "rock buggy". the d30 is tough, but not indestructable so i am going to be safe with it. i am not cutting fenders or anything like that, only going with the holbrook for the ability to hit the trail with ease.

tips and tricks for this would be DEFFINATELY appreciated.
its a stock 84 gn motor (with the old poston cam upgrade), coil packs and everything (using the SFI from the factory), the only upgrade is the computer was flashed for better performance before i got it (i am getting 2 stock ones with the ebay purchase tho, so either way). since its a draw through setup, i dont need a blow off valve or anything. i dont plan on spoolin the turbo unless passing folks on the highway (or playing in the mud/dirt).

factory boost is more than enough for me. not trying to hit the ditch when it spools. 0=)

@A Mandery any pics, tips or tricks you have no matter how simple or what the skill level is will help me. i have almost no fabrication skills and just now learning the EFI side.
i dont have an ego to stomp on, so hit me up...=)

@tarry i dont know what the scattered ignition is. its all stock with the coil packs and wireless distributor thingy. and i want to put the turbo above the intake where it goes, unless it just wont fit. then, we will see what we need to do from there. i was thinking of taking the inner fenders off so that would help with cooling the engine and exhaust pipes bumping into things. i dont know yet, its not even close to that part. =) i have to get the frame welded and take the body off.


i forgot to mention in the OP that i have herms power steering upgrade that uses the reverse steering pump from the bronco II. itll bolt to the frame, we will see how the steering rods clear tho. might tap into y'alls knowledge of things for this part.

i also want to put a hydraulic winch on it. something about the 100% duty cycle...since i have the power steering pump, might as well.

@walt and aalison, if you think about it, the only real difference between the gn 231 and a regular even fire is the turbo. when crawling around in the desert, you dont use the turbo. so, if i can find a way to keep the waste gate closed or limit throttle use, itll just be buick v6 with EFI crawling around in the desert. if i need to go over some rocks that need a little foot, then i have some on tap.
when i need to pass someone, just down shift, let it spool, cruiser around em then hit 3rd again...im not trying to build a 1/4 mile jeep. =). altho...boost, light weight, heavy right foot, the need to show off...
MUST...RESIST...RACING...
lol.
the turbo side will be "as needed" along with the winch, articulating suspension, disk brakes.... i wont use it til i need it. but itll be good to have if i need.

if anyone is interested, i have a draw through turbo setup from the carb version of the 231. i think i have everything but the down under pipe, but i havent seen it all in 1 place in years. you could stick a nice qjet or the holley spreadbore setup on it...=)

anyway my wife doesnt like the idea of a black jeep in arizona. so color might change back to the original thoughts which was painting is like the renegade II with artic white and dark blue pearl stripes (like my 06 harley had). i must say itll be ALOT cooler in the heat.
but when my kids were growing up, they called me darth dad because we used to watch star wars then have pool fights with those noodles and i would dual weild and whip all 4 at once. so, darth dad in darth vader...burning his butt, knees and/or feet everytime we touch the paint...
hmm. well, atleast i have the mechanical direction going on. =)

i am SO damn excited..=)

 

Hot air turbo sits easily under the hood in the factory position(inserted in the intake) I am talking about hot air regal version. There was a hot air turbo riviera version that was set up different. I would not worry about selectively shutting down the turbo side. As a matter of fact, I would discourage it. Remember, oddfire 225 runs 9.5/1 compression. 231 turbo unboosted runs 8/1 compression. You need the turbo to run right ( ie not like a dog). 50 lb. flywheel helps but i routinely see 2-3 lbs. boost on gauge with mild acceleration. I will say that cooling might be an issue in the desert. I have a flexalite fan on the waterpump pully and run a pusher electric fan. Temp will creep up beyond the 1/2 mark on the stock gauge while idling in indiana mid summer heat. Granted, the AC condensor in front of the stock 3 core radiator may contribute to the problem. I did have the radiator rebuilt for this project.

 

ive already had my radiator recored to the newer (higher fin count). it should cool pretty well, but i will be tip toing through the river alot, so the electric fan idea out here are discouraged. i love the idea tho. i had a flex-o-lite high velocity fan on it before for creeping and will go back to something simular.
also, i plan on a remote oil dual filter/cooler and power steering cooler in front of the radiator with a good fan pulling. i am interested in more ideas for cooling, but i think i might be covered for now.
2-3 lbs of boost will be just enough to help fill the cylinders at lower rpm. thats all u can ask for..=) of course 8 lbs when passing is going to be nice even if its just to get up to speed and then slack off. but an engine designed to push a 4000 lb car in a 2000 lb jeep? itll be fine for what i am wanting..=)
i just need to keept it cool. i am going to keep the a/c on it for on board air. that should help when creeping around in the rocks.

i just dont know if i should go with the OF flywheel or not. if i do, then i wont have a flywheel for my old odd fire. i spent money on an even fire one, but i wanna be able to creep w the heavier one.

things to ponder...input?

 

I think the heavy flywheel helps a lot.

 

i flat love the black wheels you have.
tell me what you think of this paint scheme...
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...U3UeiaOYrD2QWf3oGICg&ved=0CFMQ9QEwAw&dur=1376
this is the sand trooper proposed. 42", portals...this thing is a beast.
but i really like the black on tan. i might do that matte tan with brown "weed" style camo with the black wheels and tires you are sportin.
my friend has some hercules trail diggers in 33X12.5X15 and im thinking REALLY hard about pickin em up. he only has 250 miles before his jeep was t-boned and he has been rebuilding it for a bit now. but he wants 35's. said he would give em to me for $600. best price i could find is $800 shipped. but they arent the tire i "wanted...", but they are a tire. =)
http://compare.ebay.com/like/370699607285?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
but, with matte black wheels and tan paint with brown camo pattern, it wont be darth vader, but itll be something trail worthy...

 

AMandery.............You know that has been debated at great length over the years..........Willys /Buick back in 1966 stuck that heavy flywheel in there to calm down the uneven firing pulse of the 225 motor and it did it's job. Now we are all into crawl ratio's to get our Jeeps to move around in the rocks or hills with ease. If you have a large mechanical advantage transmission (like a T-18 @6.32:1 or a SM-420 @ 7.05:1) and a decent ratio in the transfer case and rear end its easy to see a 65-70 to 1 crawl ratio.

My point is , why carry around that heavy Flywheel? It really kills the 225 & 231's all across the RPM band and is in my opinion not needed if you already have a good mechanical crawl ratio.

In your case with a T-86a Tranny @ 2.79:1 and 3.73 gears in the back it would surely hurt your Turbo spool up time ............but because of your lower CR I'm sure the Heavy Flywheel helps some in the "Inertia" driven motion department.

 

Love the tan and black paint scheme. I think the tire height is close to 31 inches. I was trying to replicate the wheel well volume that the 16" NDT tires and rims (tha I used to run) gave the Jeep

I have never driven a oddfire nor my turbo even fire without the heavy flywheel so I can't compare them head to head. I have driven several mb's. m38's, m151's and C2a's. When running in high range my impression was that the older iron was easier to stall out than any v6 with heavy flywheel - off idle. Just my opinion. I did add the terra low gears to lower the CR. I like the 3.73 gears for paved roads which is where the jeep runs most often. I really don't appreciate much lag. Push on the skinny pedal and "whoosh" it goes.

 

opportunity presents itself a couple times.
-my wiring harness should be in the mail in a few days...

-i woke up last night PO'ed because my wife turned the a/c to warmer and turned my fan off. i was burning up...but i had a dream i remembered where she put the keys to my tool box (8 months ago) and alas, they were there. i went outside at 2am and unlocked my tool box for the first time in a long time...time to get busy!

-my welder friend finally had time to weld my frame up. the shackle mounts/perches were all broke off and the frame cracked to hell. he welded it all up and then boxed it in. $200 isnt bad for what he did.

-also, my hydraulic jack came in, so my engine hoist is operational again.

-i found a guy with a meyers half cab only a couple hours away. good shape but it has plexiglass windows driver and pass. will have to put glass in it. made a trade for it. got it for gas coming and going.no cancer, very little rust. only normal dings. its a 1955. if there were no dings, i would be suspicious.

-also, a friend told me his dad has a 73 super jeep. only thing left is frame, drive train and dual d44's. a pair of nt D44's that i dont have to cut??? man, this sounds like a good deal. i have to see if its disk or drum (i have a disk setup for the 30), and i dont know the gears yet...all i want is the front to match my rear d44. being a 73, theirs is prolly center drop rear. he is calling his dad to find out about them now.
a 73 super jeep is supposed to be the most rare, but from what i see, its just a cj5 with a v8 option and stripes. i dont need to redo the super jeep...i just want the axle. =)

so that leaves me with a question. something to ponder. how stable are 35's on a short cj? i see people doing it, but i want road manners and stability. i wont risk my wife or kids lives...
i have the holbrook long travel you guys suggested for articulation. i am thinking 1" above stock on a body lift. i dont drive crazy...
so 4" lift, 1" body, with 35's? will there be enough fender well room for flexy suspension and 35's? i have a deal on 33"s hercules trail diggers, but i want to go with 17 or 18 inch steel black wheels. so i will need to buy new tires if i go that route anyway. might as well buy the ones i want to fit the jeep and my driving style and pass on the "good deal".

i think 33's on d44's will make a rock solid trail rig. the axles should stand for a long time, after market support is good and its already cut to size.
i am going to make a post to follow the build in the restoration/project area. until i do, would you guys give me your insights?