1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Dauntless Rocker Arm Oiling

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by John Gedde, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Mar 17, 2020
    John Gedde

    John Gedde Been around the block once or twice...

    Middle Island, NY
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Basically, my question is simple so I'll get right to it before I tell the story as to why I'm asking. How do the valve stem tips/rocker arm pads get oiled?

    The Buick manual says there is an oil passage to both the pushrod tip and the valve tip but my rockers only have a passage to the pushrod tips.

    Here's the story.... I recently rebuilt my Dauntless as discussed in another thread. I initially started the rebuild because the engine had a clacking noise I presumed to be the lifters. Upon taking the motor apart, I found the lifters and cam to be very worn and assumed this was the root cause. Fast forward, engine rebuilt...

    I started up the new engine and broke in the cam. It's a great running engine! However, the clacking was still there. I pulled the intake to verify I had no bad lifters and the cam had no break-in issues. Thankfully, all was as it should be. Further investigation - I isolated it to a few rocker arms. Upon taking the rocker shaft off, I found the valve stems had galled their way into the hardened pads on three rocker arms - clearly from poor lubrication. The surfaces were dry as a bone as far as oil - the break-in lube I used was all gone. Three rockers now have bad pads that are too far gone to be reground. I needed new rockers. Upon disassembling the shafts themselves, I found pretty bad wear on the shafts and also in some of the rocker shaft bores. So, they definitely need attention. I caught it in time before the valves sustained much damage to their hardened tips. They cleaned up with a Arkansas stone.

    So, time to rebuild the rocker shafts to match the rest of the engine. TA Performance has an outside company that will rebuild the shafts for $316 by re-chroming the shafts and regrinding them to diameter and bushing the rockers as required. But, I really wanted to put all new stuff in.

    I found new NOS LH rockers on eBay and am good to go there. But, the RH rockers are unobtainium. I heard tell that Land Rover V8 rockers are usable. So, I ordered one to evaluate. It arrived Saturday and I found it to be dimensionally an exact match! Good info here. So I went ahead and ordered all 12 (both RH and LH) even though I already had 6 NOS LH rockers. The Rover rockers were inexpensive ($9 each). This left me with only the shafts to deal with. Of course, I couldn't find Dauntless rocker shafts and ones from a 231 have extra holes for plastic buttons (no springs on a 231 shaft) and lack the rocker pedestal oiling feature.

    So, back to Rover. I ordered two Rover shafts (which haven't arrived) and plan on shortening them as necessary to turn them from V8 shafts into V6 shafts. I'll follow up to tell y'all how this all works out.

    All in all, I have confirmed that the rocker pedestals are getting pressurized oil up the hole in the head. The passenger side has much more flow than the driver's side, but I think the driver's side oil flow will be sufficient. I'm not quite sure why the driver's side has so much less flow than the passenger side. I'm a bit perturbed about this even still since this is the side where all the failed rocker tips were. Any ideas?

    Cheers,
    John
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  2. Mar 17, 2020
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,622
    You might want read through this thread. Tarry builds a lot of engines and documented a 225 rebuild here. He discusses the problems with the oiling system.

    Blueprint 225
     
  3. Mar 17, 2020
    John Gedde

    John Gedde Been around the block once or twice...

    Middle Island, NY
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Yuppers, I'm very familiar with that thread. I read through it several times and referred to it many times more when I built my motor. Alas, Terry doesn't say much about his rocker arms or shaft in that thread.

    John
     
  4. Mar 17, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    734
  5. Mar 17, 2020
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,492
    The oil pump is supplying the right side first. Temp plug the pedestal hole in right bank and see if the left increases.
     
  6. Mar 17, 2020
    John Gedde

    John Gedde Been around the block once or twice...

    Middle Island, NY
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    I did that. Made little difference.... I know the passage is open right to the cam bearing. Is there anything else taking oil from there on that side?

    John
     
  7. Mar 17, 2020
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,492
    [​IMG]I did have one engine that had the wrong pedestal bolt in the front pedestal as the proper one has a reduced shank size to allow oil to flow around.
     
    Tom_Hartz likes this.
  8. Mar 17, 2020
    53A1

    53A1 Member

    Kern Co. Ca.
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    330
    I did similar tests when freshened up my cam and lifters. Like it was mentioned above if you prime the oil pump with the rockers off it will flow out of one side more than the other. I also ran engine cleaner through and confirmed it was flowing through the front lifter galleys and pedestals then cleaned my pan. Are spinning it up fast with a drill motor? I had oil shoot out the pedestal. As far as oiling the valve stem, I'm confused on that one also. Maybe some oil leaks between the rockers at the rocker shaft and finds it way to the spring and onto the stem, pools, get flung around, ect. I can't see any other way. Also make sure you put the rocker shafts back on their correct side.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  9. Mar 18, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,543
    Finally! Someone took my advice that the Rover engines have the same rockers (and a bunch of other interchangable parts). Most of the engines in the junkyard have perfect rockers, even though they're used. I have a couple sets for my 215 Buicks. As far as shortening the actual shaft, make sure to swap the end plug back in the end you shorten, Those shafts are hardened, so drilling a new cotter pin hole might be difficult.
    Let us know how it works out.
    -Donny
     
    John Gedde likes this.
  10. Mar 18, 2020
    John Gedde

    John Gedde Been around the block once or twice...

    Middle Island, NY
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Hiya Donny, It WAS your advice that led me down the Rover route after reading a few of your other posts on the subject. Thank you! I found new rockers and shafts on eBay from a Rover parts house near Rochester, NY.

    As for the shaft, I'll likely drill the cotter pin holes in my Bridgeport using a center cutting carbide end mill. That should cut it like butter! As for shortening the shafts, again carbide. I'll skim the case hardening off with a carbide insert the width of my parting tool then go and part it off using a carbide insert parting tool.

    John
     
  11. Mar 18, 2020
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,492
    Be sure to observe the notch at the end of the shaft for proper orientation of the oiler holes in the shaft in relation to the lifters. It can be installed 180* out. The notch goes to the front on the right bank and the rear on the left bank. The cotter pin will be angled outward (at the top) away from the push rods so the new drilled holes in the shortened shaft must be located in the correct orientation.
     
  12. Mar 19, 2020
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    584
    What Walt said.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Mar 19, 2020
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    584
    Here is this description;

    [​IMG]

    R.H. cylinder head.

    [​IMG]

    Volume of oil put out through he right side head at starter cranking speed without sparkplugs installed, the left side was similar. Oil flow was present in about 3 to 5 seconds after engine cranking over.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Mar 21, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    944
    You can use rockers and push rods from a 231 odd fire. They have oil passages in the push rod. Did that when I rebuilt my Jeep. Got them from a Vendor in California
     

Share This Page

New Posts