Dauntless 225 Engine Parts Suggestions

Ummn... I built that particular 1966 Dauntless engine using all genuine OEM GM components.
Absolutely everything was standard stock excepting the .040 overbore.
Engine has now sat for two years as I needed to complete some F-134 projects.
Hope to get back to assembling my Dauntless Jeeps by this fall.

I already have a second 1970 Dauntless engine half way built.
Again I'm using all genuine stand stock GM parts.
This engine is mostly assembled and waiting to get a camshaft.
I aquired 2 new camshafts for it..
One is the Comp Cam 252 H grind.
The other is a NOS GM # 1389789 which is the original camshaft used for 198 Fireball.
It is nearly identical to the Dauntless 225 GM 1357868 camhaft.

 

Here's my experience with a custom Comp cam that was based on somewhat modified 260H specs (see attached card at link below). If I had to do it all over again, I'd do exactly the same thing. Excellent performance and idling with the stock Rochester 2G....no noticeable downside, IMHO:

231 OF cam specs

 

I have saved this link for reference.
Cam Name
Valve timing or cam profile is more important than general duration/ lift browsing. The small valves are the choke point for these engines unless you add$$ to the head work. These engines can take a fair amount of duration as long as the intake is opened early so it doesn't get lumpy and weak on the bottom end.

 

Good point re. the stock Dauntless valves....mine (both intake and exhaust) were oversized in the rebuild:

1967 CJ5 Dauntless V6 Engine Rebuild

 

Old time, where are you finding your genuine GM components. I'm looking for a good source for parts.

 

PA CJ, it really depends on what you're looking for.
I have maybe a thousand hours tied up in parts searches, so I could feasibly assist you.
In fact one of those 2 camshafts shown above will definitely be up for sale.

Some of my earlier parts hord was the last of what I could find from local Jeep dealers back in the 1980's.
It was around 2005 when I first used internet and became eBay aware.
Old Jeep parts were pretty abundant and relatively cheap for the next 5 years after that.
The eBay sources for genuine Jeep NOS are notably drying up and prices are trending up.
The Willys reunions and Jeep swap meets are about the only other sources for NOS.
CL is usually best for larger used parts.
On occasions it can take over 5 years to locate a particular OEM or genuine NOS part.
By now I have found nearly every part that I could ever want for my remaining Jeep projects.

As soon as my final Willys 3B is gone from my garage I plan to sell off all remaining Willys and Kaiser NOS related to 134 engines.
That particular jeep has already been sold, yet it will remain in my garage for a few more months.
It's an awesome optional stock 3B with absolutely every Heavy Duty 3B option plus Jeep Approved Special Equipment
But I decided to go all out on my final 2 builds and use only the absolute best Jeep parts ever (1941-1985)
I will not sell the NOS 134 related parts before the 3B leaves for good.
I plan to put all those parts up "For Sale" as soon as it leaves for Oklahoma.

I bought many extra Willys, Kaiser and AMC parts so that I could be flexible with my build stipulations.
I normally sell off my excess OEM stock after I make final decisions about my builds.
I'll be down to 2 Dauntless powered flatfender Jeep builds after the 3B leaves.

 

Factory 225 v6 pistons are really the only thing I'm in the market for, and I don't know what size I need just yet.

I'd like to upgrade the cam and I continue to research that. Maybe even enlarge the valves in the heads as much as possible. Cost dependent

 

You'd be mighty hard pressed to locate actual GM pistons.
I have found only one set of those.

I once found saw a set of .030 over TRW's which in reality are Egge pistons.
Egge (USA) produces forged pistons to fit the 225 but they are likely out of stock right now and won't make more unless they get a very large order for them.

I'd shy away from current production Federal Moguls and Seal Tested which are made in Mexico because the CR is not up to snuff.

 

I spoke with TA Performance today and they sell 9.0 : 1 compression stock pistons made by Egge. They also sell a high compression 9.5 : 1 pistons but he tried to steer me away from them since they are special order and the last two sets he had made produced 10:1 compression and the customers returned them. (He suspected their heads had been decked)

I have read a lot of negative feed back online about Egge pistons though. Complaints about uneven piston weights in the set, tolerance issues, pistons falling apart leading to engine failure etc.

The CEO of Egge responded to a forum post I read from 2010 and debunked any claims of foreign manufacturing. He said all manufacturing is dont in CA. Sometimes materials are sourced from overseas though when needed.

 

Larger valves in the stock 225 head is not an easy task to accomplish..........just not enough room in the combustion chamber where water jackets are nearby...........plus a larger combustion chamber will lower compression unless you build a custom piston with a dome , deck the block or shave the heads...........plus the size of the intake runners upstream , volume wise would also need some work for the larger valves to be of any real benefit............cleaning up the area around the valve bowls in the stock heads with more attention on the exhaust side will help the little motor breath.

As far as pistons are concerned .................you'll find that you will just have to settle for what is out there, unless you want a custom piston at perhaps $1500 set...........keeping in mind this is not a high horsepower racing motor...........piston weights can be corrected by weighing them on a gram scale and grinding off a little aluminum...............or just get the assembly balanced..................finding a good engine builder & machinist that knows how to properly build & clearance the motor , who also understands the oiling system and other little tricks to extract a few extra horsepower , while also building in some longevity is far more important than picking a Piston manufacture when there are only a few choices.

 

Going by Egge website they have pistons in stock. Perhaps a phone call would be needed though.

Egge Piston Set

Piston Set
Part #: L2225-6Price: $230.94


Desc: 1965-67 Buick 225
Specifications:
Bore Size (inches): 3.75000
Application: Buick
Clearance: 0.00250
Compression Height: 1.85500
Cylinders: 6
Distance Between Bosses: 1.15
Head Type: Relief
Overall Length (inches): 3
Ring Set Up: 2)5/64,1)3/16
Skirt Style: Full Round
Slot Type: H
Wrist Pin size: .9397O

Oversize:

Quantity:




Weight: 12.00 lbs

Engine Rebuild Kits
Application Kit #
BUICK 225CID V-6 1964 BU225M64
Buick 225CID V-6 1965-67 BU225M65-67
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I've read about people adding larger valves, it's on the internet so it's gotta be true, lol. That's why I mentioned it was something I'm going to look into. I do have an offenhauser 4 bbl intake for part of the up stream circuit. I am all for porting the intake and exhaust runners in the head a little if there is bennefit for the low end - mid range performance. In reality I want this motor to be as powerful as I can build it for the 700 - 3000 rpm range. If attempting to do some porting is only going to bennefit at 2500+ rpm and I'll loose some grunt on the low end, then I'd sooner just leave everything stock....

Thoughts on that part?

 

That's a very sensable plan all-righty !

I'd like to see some real dynamometer results to determine optimum camshaft profile for low RPM work with standard engine.
Obviously the camshaft must work in conjunction with charge and flow characteristics.

The charge being the fuel mix and quantity.
The in flow being effected by carburetor main bore, intake manifold, porting, and valve size.
The outflow being effected by exhaust valve size, porting and manifold tubes.

 

Hi,
I'm building a 225 with a TA 112 cam, Eggy 9.0 CR pistons, a Kenne Bell manifold with a Holley 390cfm carb. I am also using the heads from a 1980 231 with 5way ground, SS valves and a HEI ignition.
The heads have the larger diameter stock valves but are the dished stainless valves. The stock heads have a smaller compression chamber, which combined with the dished valves, yields a 9.7 compression ratio using the EGGY standard 9.0 CR pistons. The 231 heads are oiled through the lifters and pushrods.
I'm also using the stock exhaust manifolds but the exhaust ports in the heads could be ported for better flow.

 

At 9.7 to 1 compression ratio you'll probably have to run 93 octane or maybe better.

The good thing about standard 9.0 to 1 compression ratio you can just get by on cheap 87 octane without pre-ignition problems.
In other words the standard CR literally gives you the BEST BANG for your BUCK !

 

The 225 O/F block oils the overhead through the block............later even fired 1980 heads as you mentioned have wet push rods......also the later head do not line up to the earlier oiling port and neither does the water jackets....unless you have solved that problem?

Personally if I was going to build a conventional early Buick V6 for more power I would look to the even fired years for components .........like 84-89 , much better blocks , heads and support.

Otherwise as Ken stated above the old motor is still pretty potent...

 

I agree on your bang-for-buck point. I was expecting to use regular gas but had a run-on problem that the 93 octane has cured. This rebuild project has been fighting me all the way and I've had several other issues that I'm working through with this combination.

Maybe a higher octane would cure some of these problems. Have you ever used an octane booster?

 

So far, the oiling nor the water jacket has not been a problem. The Kenne Bell manifold has bolted right on without any obvious water jacket problems. And the oiling has been through the lifters/pushrods without problems.

My original intent was to rebuild the 225 but since I needed everything to get a quality rebuild, I started adding performance parts to get better results without adding a lot of extra money. This has led to the "unintended results" syndrome. I have an apparent valve train noise that I can't resolve.

 

No, none of my engines ever needed more than 91 octane when running up the hills.
Booster might end up costing more than better grade of fuel. ???

For any engine economy is all about getting the most power from the cheapest or the most common fuel.
Back in the 40's the 134 engine was intended to burn any kinda uncracked gasoline at 69 octane.
But today's common fuel has much higher octane rating so engine compression ratio (CR) can go way up.

Generally speaking the octane should be 10 times the CR.
Dauntless with 9.0 CR is really pushing it for 87 octane fuel.
But it typically does fine with that high of CR on 87 octane.
I suspect that a standard Dauntless likely needs to run 89 octane when in the mountains.
Can anyonein the mountains verify that statement ?

So long as it does not pre-ignite your getting more bang for your buck if you can raise the CR.
Raising a Dauntless CR above 9.0 to 1 forces you to burn higher octane fuel.
And thats O.K. iif that's what you want.
But when CR goes up so does the combustion chamber temperatures.
From my understanding when you get above 9.0 or 9.5 CR the nitrous oxides (greenhouse gasses) begin to form.

So that's why I like the standard Dauntless 9.0 CR.
Best bang for your buck without excess pollution and the cheapest common fuel.

 

I agree with all of your logic, and your economics and ecological concerns are commendable.

However, being of the mindset that more is better, I was rebuilding the stock 225 heads but it became evident that if I had to buy new valves, springs, rockers etc. I might as well try the better flowing 231 heads for cheep out of a junkyard and spend the money on rebuilding those heads, shooting for a CR around 9.5. What I didn't know, was that the combustion chamber of the 231 heads is smaller which drove the CR way up. Installing the dished stainless valves brought down the CR to a more manageable level.

Next time I'll know better.