Dana 27F BOMs

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by 4xwriter, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. Jan 14, 2016
    4xwriter

    4xwriter Jim Allen

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    First, I'm looking for a Spicer catalog covering '60-66?

    Second, I am trying to track down some oddities in BOMs on Dana 27AF axles (both Jeep and Scout) and since I don't have the aforementioned X-500 or X-510 books, I'm going to try by collection D27 BOMs until something becomes clear or I give up in disgust. Mainly, I am trying to plot some of the minor difference in these axle and their dates. It's all pretty obscure and very anal... welcome to my mind ( : < 0)

    So, if you have any Dana 27 BOMs and date codes handy for '60-66 Jeeps or Scout, or you are willing to look them up, I would be grateful. If you can find me a '60-66 Spicer book, or copies, I'll send you something nice!

    Jim Allen
    ("that" Jim allen)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  2. Jan 14, 2016
    jeepermc

    jeepermc Member

    Western WA
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    Hi Jim-
    I don't have any of the books you're looking for, but I do have the Dana 27 out of the front of my Diesel 66 CJ-6 kicking around the shop still. Pretty easy access to it. The jeep was assembled December of 65 IIRC. is there a BOM stamped on the axle somewhere?
     
  3. Jan 14, 2016
    Rralphs

    Rralphs Intelligent Rectum

    Nederland, Co
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    I have looked for such books and came up empty. Maybe we could reverse engineer them if we could collect BOM's, gears ratio and such from the group?
     
  4. Jan 14, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. Sponsor

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    oldtime (a member here) seems to have a library of old part numbers etc. not counting what he has stored in his brain. This guy is incredible and he may just post up here.
     
  5. Jan 14, 2016
    dan d

    dan d Sponsor Sponsor

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    Yep, what Walt said..... Ken is one wealth of information....
     
  6. Jan 14, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Oh boy ! I just had to look didn't I....
    You know you guys are blowing smoke again. Ha Ha Ha !
    Anyway Yeah Jim,... well good luck on finding those Spicer books.

    Did you check with Greg Roe of Willys Motors ....Toledo Ohio ?
    He certainly has first hand experience and inside information on Dana Spicer.

    The only information I have is strictly from Jeep.
    I have a complete collection of all Mechanics Manuals, Maintenance Manuals, Universal Service Manuals, Universal parts Lists and Universal Parts Catalogs. 1945-1973.
    My 2 - 1/2 foot tall stack of books only covers the 1945-1973 universal series.

    I have previously posted a few tidbits of info concerning the various model 27 axle assemblies.
    Anything in particular your looking for ?
    Seems more like your trying to discern all of the model 27 variables.

    I have not researched this in depth but here is an excerpt from an old post on the 3B page B.B......
    Here's my basic understanding ....

    In 1961 W/O began to install the new model 27 front axles into the CJ's.
    The model 27 Spicer was very short lived.
    It was back out of production that same year.
    By late 1962 the model 27 re-emerged as the model 27A.
    This version amounted to little more than a change of the housing cover.
    Both 27 and 27A used the W/O # 926816 End Yoke that mates to a typical # 1310 series universal joint.

    Then in 1965 the axle was changed again and became known as the model 27AF.
    In its final form the axle was now fitted with the W/O # 936216 End Yoke that mates to a # xxxx series universal joint
    According to numerical parts reference the model 27AF seems to have arrived immediately before the V-6 became available.
    All later CJ's both F-4 and V-6 versions through 1971 had the W/O # 936216 End Yoke.

    Model 27 A rebuild procedures are identical to the model 25 rebuild noted in your 1960 service manual.
    The main differences being the ring + pinion gears, the carrier, housing and the wheel bearings.
    Many parts such as axle shafts, knuckles, king pin bearings and brake assembly being identicle.
     
  7. Jan 15, 2016
    4xwriter

    4xwriter Jim Allen

    On a Farm in...
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    Gents-

    Thanks for the replies. I am trying to figure out the changes in numbering and dating on the axles as much as the changes in components. I figured out the difference in the 27 vs the 27A, for example (bearing upgrades mainly). I also found that the 27 front axle is listed in the 1959 Spicer manual, but in a preliminary fashion as if it was just coming out. No application listed, just part numbers.

    From the early books, they used a slightly different system for numbering than the BOM we are familiar with. My latest early book ends at 1960 and they list the axles as an "Axle Part Number" rather than a "Bill of Materials" in a four digit code with a hyphen and another digit. For example, a '56-59 CJ-5/6 (and CJ-3B) front Spicer 25 had a code of 2278-3 with 5.38 gears, -5 with 3.54 gears and -4 with 4.88 gears. They list the common parts groups and the special parts are listed under the Axle Part Number, which is unique to that applications. Another example, the '56-57 Willys Utility Wagon 25 is 2279-1 for 5.38 gears. The '55-59 Willys Utility Truck 25 is 2280-11 with 4.27, -5 with 4.88, -7 with 5.38. Etc, etc.

    By at least 1965, they went to the seven digit system. I have 1965 Scout codes with seven digits

    The other thing I am trying to reconcile are date codes, which follow tot eh right of the axle number. Starting in about '66, you see a more or less conventional date, e.g. "10-17-9A5" (October 18, 1969, plant/shift A5). In a few axles prior to '66, I have seen letters for the month, e.g. "D-22-6A5". One presumes the "D" is for April and the rest remains the same as the later. That means "A" is January. I saw this once on a Jeep axle but really didn't take notice of it to any degree so I need more data.

    So, if you guys don't mind, I'd like to see some numbers.

    1)They are stamped into the axle tube to the right of the cover (as you face it) the BOM (AKA axle part number) will be first and it will either be in a seven digit format (six followed by a hyphen and another digit) or a five digit format (four +1).

    2) Also helpful is the year of the Jeep (production month if possible... I can help with that as I have some month by month records in the '60s and can look up I have a serial number and prefix).

    3) Axle ratio (especially if you KNOW it's the original)

    4) If you are pretty sure if they are the original axles or not. Interested in the numbers from CJs, Wagons and, yeah, even Scouts from the 800 back to the 80 line ('71 and earlier). Yes, I am also working with the Scout community on this project.

    I would like to find the year when they changed from the five to the seven digit code (sometime between July '59 and April '65) and to see some of those '60-66 codes on Jeeps and Scouts. 1950s codes for reference as well, just to confirm stuff. I will compile it and post it for all of us to use.

    Jim Allen
    ("that" Jim Allen)
     
  8. Jan 15, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    If you are purely looking for Dana 27 info that is not necessarily just jeep-specific, 60s (drum brake) Volvos (the switch to disk used Dana 30s) and (I think) Studebakers used Dana 27s in the rear.

    Disregard this post if it's worthless. :)
     
  9. Jan 15, 2016
    4xwriter

    4xwriter Jim Allen

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    Well, if somebody has a Volvo, Studebaker or whatever Spicer 27 BOM prior to '67, I'll be happy to add it to the database. It could add some context!
     
  10. Jan 15, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Be glad to assist you with axle numbers BUT...
    I just don't have any D27 axles to provide you with identification numbers.

    I mainly prefer the later D25's or jump to D30 axles and so I no longer have any D27's.
    I mainly prefer a D25 in lieu of D27 because it has a larger thereby more durable ring/pinion.
    Also the D25 used the larger pinion bearings than a D27.
    In fact the D25 pinion bearings were the same as D41 or D44 axles.

    Of course the D25 has certain limitations concerning gear ratio selections.
    And the later version D27AF provides slightly wider wheel bearings via larger hub bores.

    As you know most other differences are relatively minor and most parts such as the "C-clip" axle shafts are directly interchangeable anyway.
    Of course there always exist certain interchange limitations dependent on the specific vintage of the parts.

    If it will help I can possibly supply you with all associated Jeep part numbers for CJ series plus the Wagons and Pickups.
    The part numbers provide insight toward both interchange and timelines so long as one is familiar with the system in use.
    It's always a challenge to convert from one identification system such as the Dana Spicer toward another system such as Jeep used.
    In general Jeep did not stockpile a large quantity of axle assemblies.
    From what I can tell the axles generally went from Dana Spicer production onto the Jeep assembly line within 2 to 4 months of time.
    Jeep preferred to source all their parts locally so as to reduce transit and storage costs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
  11. Jan 15, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Concerning the gear ratios...
    All CJ's 1945-1963 (model year) were equipped with 5.38 ratio and no optional ratios were available from the factory.

    http://cj3b.info/Photos/Tech/ServiceBulletins/SB601AxleRatio.JPG

    In 1963 through 1971 production the 4.27 ratio became standard and 5.38 remained as an option on standard Hurricane powered CJ's.
    As you know In late 1965 the V-6 powered Jeeps became available.
    The V-6 CJ's (1966-1971) were all standard with 3.73 ratio and a 4.88 (D27) 4.89 (D44) option was available.

    I can also dig up the various standard and optional ratios used on various vintages of wagons and pick-ups.
     
  12. Jan 15, 2016
    4xwriter

    4xwriter Jim Allen

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    Again, I am mainly interested in the Spicer BOM angle. I probably have some of the same Jeep parts books you guys do, as well as an extensive collection of Jeep Data Books. My goal is to find the changeover from the five to seven digit BOMs (or APN), get the BOMs for the various axles and their applications and then I can fill in the blanks as to common and model-specific parts. That's the easy part since we have the parts books. We don't have the Spicer books for that era (at least I don't).

    "All CJ's 1945-1963 (model year) were equipped with 5.38 ratio and no optional ratios were available from the factory."

    My '52-59 Spicer books don't back that up 100%. Listed in the CJ Model 25 axle sections are 3.54 and 4.88 ratios as well. Because they do not appear in the Data Books or factory spec sheets, they were probably available only by special order but they were available to W-O or K-J for special purposes. In my experience, that they are listed shows that Jeep purchased some axles in that configuration for whatever obscure purpose. Yes I am picking nits but if someone ever finds a Dana 25 with a 2278-5 number, he'll know it came with 3.54:1 ratios. ( : < )
     
  13. Jan 15, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Well yes 1963-1965 wagons and pickups with the 6-230 OHC Tornado certainly had the 4.10 and 3.54 ratios.
    No doubt Jeep could special order any ratio that Spicer had in production if Jeep had a special need.
    I only meant to imply that optional ratios were not available to the general public according to the 1945-1962 CJ Service Standards.
    Of course the CJ Service Standards may or may not directly effect components of a special order such as a stripped chassis vehicle.
     
  14. Jan 16, 2016
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    I have a '62 wagon frame out in the yard with a broken (D25) ring gear that has a 3:54 ratio. It was a 230 ohc engine originally. I will try to check the axle number to verify tomorrow.
    -Donny

    Back a day later after checking. Its a D25 on a '62 wagon that had a 230 OHC and I believe original to the truck.
    Tag on the front cover reads 3:54. Numbers stamped into the housing about 5" from the front cover on driver's side;
    3 272A 2514.
    This may be "picking nits" but this doesn't jive with your post above!
    -Donny
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  15. Jul 25, 2017
    4xwriter

    4xwriter Jim Allen

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    Was scrounging around the site and got back on here after more than a year. I didn't get notification of this reply but it's interesting in that it's a 4-digit code with the right date. Wish I could decode 2514 to see if it really shipped out as a 3.54:1 ratio, but I STILL haven't found the '60-66 Spicer books. I also don't have a '62 Data Book to verify the array of ratios available. I know the 3.54:1 ratio existed and likely there was a method for getting it into a '62 Wagon. Whether it was a RPO or not is the question.
     
  16. Oct 4, 2017
    4xwriter

    4xwriter Jim Allen

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    I'm bumping this again in case there are some new eyeballs out there. I have collected a few more numbers, all from IH Scouts but I'm only incrementally closer to having any closely spaced dots to connect, let alone complete the full picture.
     
  17. Dec 1, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    Jim, I don't know if you're interested, but I just picked up two Spicer catalogs for the AMC/Jeep Model 30 axles. The catalogs are XF30-J ('71-'78), and X500-S78 (superceding list). The XF30-J catalog has a column of BOM numbers by Jeep model. Are you interested in a copy?
    -Donny
     
  18. Dec 1, 2017
    4xwriter

    4xwriter Jim Allen

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    Boy Howdy, Donny! That would be great. I'll PM you with contact info.
     

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