Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by william_cj3b, Sep 20, 2005.
I looked into doing a Quad 4 in a willys. The bellhousing was $$$$$$ and made the whole thing not worth it. If I recall correctly, you also had to use the right intake and there were other issues. Added it all up and it was a lot more time and money than I initially thought it would be.
I always thought the Quad4 was a corporate pattern to mate up to the TH125 corporate FWD trans...which is the same as old S-10's auto trans. Manual trans was a Getrag or NV IIRC.
I have never researched it myself as this Jeepr's R&D lab is Buick only. 8)
Why not a VW deisel?
There was a company putting them in Samis for awhile.
I had a '78 Mercury Bobcat when I was 16. It came with a worn out 2.3 and auto tranny. I swapped the whole drivetrain from a pinto with a 4 speed. Believe it or not, that thing would smoke the tire R) through second gear. I drove it for a couple of years, okay, I abused it for a couple of years and sold it. It lasted the next guy about a month. Bought a '79 CJ7 after that. The auto trans in the Pinto's and Mustangs sucked a lot of power from the engine.
I was thinking, if you are looking for 4cyl, why not a late model Jeep? Seems to me there would be a lot of these around cheap what with everybody swapping them out for v8s and such. You would have to work out the computer/wiring harness but the products are out there for the 4.0 so it might not be to much a stretch to say it could be done with the 4 cyl.
I've always thought it would be a neat swap to put a late model fuel injected Jeep four into a flat fender. You might could even swap in a t5 while you were at it. Then you'd have overdrive to boot! T5 is a little light for a big CJ with 33s, but would live fine in a daily driven flat fender with a 4cyl. I think a T5 is somewhat longer than a T90 so might be a very short rear shaft.
All interesting ideas. Some I've considered. Some I'm still considering.
NO computers allowed in the 3B. I want something I can troubleshoot and repair in the middle of nowhere if neccesary. Computer controlled engines are great.... in modern cars driven by people who can afford to pay someone to chase the gremlins when a complicated problem arises. I can't afford to pay attention - much less anything else
Welllll, I feel the same way for different reasons... NO computers in the -5. Just cause, I guess.
BUT, I have a 4.0 in the 83 CJ7, and I used some of the mopar kit components to install it. It and the t18 tranny are probably the biggest improvements I have made that increased off road performance. It has been in since 98, and the only problems I have had with it were related to clogged fuel filters installed before the frame rail mounted pump, causing fuel starvation. That's it. No fiddling with timing weights, adjusting idle mixture, float height, heck no adjusting the timing at all, on the 4.0 the dist goes in one way, no adjustments.
I do carry an extra fuel pump, but that isn't a bad idea on a carbed motor anyway. Sure you could gravity feed but...
I also carry a crankshaft postioning sensor (CPS), which has a reputation for giving intermittent no start problems, or failing altogether resulting in a no-go situation.
I guess what I am saying is, if you invest some time learning how the system works (the same way you have to with a carb and points dist) trouble shooting it isn't much different. You still need fuel, air, and spark.
Even though my -5 has a t18 and lockers front/rear, it is not my primary offroader. If it was, FI would be top of the list for next mod.
I too have thought that would be a great swap, and reasoned that a lot of good motors are being discarded in favor of V8s in late model Jeeps. The AMC 150 is a fine engine, and can be adapted to the SM420, so I'd think you could similarly match it to a T90 using the widely available GM adapter. Those adapters come up all the time on ebay and willystech ... could be an inexpensive transplant. I believe the 150 came carbureted, with TBI or with TPI, take your pick. Although, if I had MY choice, I'd choose EFI. No crude, fiddley, stone-age mechanohydraulic technology for me!
Also, if you have a Dana 18, I think a T5 is way overreaching for an overdrive transmission, when you can have a Warn overdrive so easily. The T5 needs a round NP pattern case, like the D300. Use a D300 and you need a centered rear axle... etc etc. I'd stick with the T90, the SM420, or maybe a T18.
Yup, the T-5 is also quite a bit longer than a T-90 or even a T-18. With all the things would have to change to use it, I think you would be much better off using a T-90 or T-18 with a warn OD. It would be stronger, 6 speeds (with a T-90, 8 with a T-18) instead of 5, and OD. The other late model transmissions that came behind Jeep 4cyls are just as long if not longer, though they are stronger.
All things considered it would probably be best to keep the T90, unless it sees enough offroad to justify the granny low, whether it was the t18 or sm420.
I mentioned the T5 because highway performance was the stated goal of the swap. I was just thinking a t5 would be cheaper than a warn overdrive. Guess it would depend on what kind of deal you got. Ease of installation for the Warn OD would beat out the T5, cost being even. Another thing I thought of is the shifter mounts towards the back the tranny on the T5. might end up with the shifter between the seats!
As was said up above. To use the T-5, you would need to use a round pattern transfer case such as the dana 300 as there are no adapters to the D18. Then you're going to have to get a centered rear axle to match and most likely have to re gear or get a matching front axle. After all that, you end up with a weak transmission that doesn't have very low gears and a very short rear driveshaft. The Warn/Sarutn OD looks better all the time.
60-70 MPH in a flat fender, on the hiway, in traffic. Put down the pipe and step away from the JEEP. Pick up a Bible, God will show you the way.
Yeah, strait from the 3B forum...... 'swhy I posted this here instead :twisted: However you do have a valid viewpoint. An 80" wheelbase is only so safe at speed.
I wonder, though, why everyone says a flatfender is unsafe at speed but think nothing of a CJ-5, Samuri, Geo Tracker, Geo Metro and on and on at highway speeds. There's only an inch difference in wheelbase between the 3B and the 5. My old '69 was quite stable at 75.... on 33" tires.
EDIT: I must have been very sleepy (and maybe a little cranky) last night when I posted this. It was NOT meant to be an attack on willysworker. Sorry if it sounded that way The 3B forum comment stems from my experiences trying to get help making the old girl more road worthy. Nothing against Derek Redmond, just maybe some of the guys that post over there who think their viewpoint is the only valid one.
My opinions are my own and I know aren't worth 2 cents. However, I've totaled a couple cars, '60 Triumph TR3a, and '72 Honda 600N(Ultra Mini) and heavily crashed several others. I've owned over 40 different vehicles and the scariest one is my flatfender. I finished a 225 V6 conversion on it last year and it has plenty of power. My flattie is the scariest vehicle I've ever owned and the last on a list of cars I'd want to crash. Everybody be well.
I drove my Cj-5 as a daily driver for 3 years, 31 miles each way, all freeway. It had 33x12.50's on 10"wheels.(not the best for DD's) I averaged 65-70 all the way, every day. It's not as comfy as most commuters, but it can be done.
If you DD drive it invest in some good seats. They will make all the difference.
I hear you. My 1972 Honda 600n had 17 HP, 10" dia. wheels and about a 50" wheel base. It was a clown car. I drove it 65MPH from Sacramento to L.A. on I-5 (500miles). MY dull point is early Jeeps would be not my choice to crash, that's all.
My '84 Cherokee has a carb'd 2.5l (150ci) 4 banger. It uses the 60 degree GM bellhousing pattern so finding a bellhousing should be no problem. Clifford performance offers cams/ headers/ and intakes.
I am in the process of swapping in a '95 2.5l from a Wrangler into my XJ. I modified the FI intake to accept a Holley 5200 (weber clone) carb and swapped the distributor for the one off the original '84 carb'd motor. I can't comment on how it runs as it is still in project stage.
I'd suspect no one here wants to crash their Jeep or any other car.
I brought the orange Jeep back from MO and drove down I70 at 70mph on 33's with no issues.
How many of you honestly know someone that has a Jeep that has had an accident? I can recall one person on WT having an accident in his Willys truck a couple years ago, one person here that had a run in with a deer.
My point is, if you enjoy it drive it. At some point it doesn't matter what you're in when you're going down the highway it'd be a bumpy ride if you crash anything...
amen... No matter what you crash it will hurt if it is on the highway.
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