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Correct Wheels For Early Cj5 Thread

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by Cap-n-Cray, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. Dec 21, 2009
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    When I bought my new/old 1966 CJ5 Jeep and it was delivered, I soon discovered it had two different types of rims. They are also different widths. So began my search for the correct rim. What rim is correct for an early CJ5 Jeep and what year?

    For reference here are photos of both types of rims that I have:

    [​IMG]

    This type I call the non-ring type and is 15 inches x 6 inches (outside rim bead measurement because I did not take the tire off yet).

    [​IMG]

    This type I call the ring type and is 15 inch x 6.5 inches (outside rim bead measurement).

    Both have three hub cap bumps. Both are painted white and painted black on the inside. I think that is stock? They have been repainted once on the outside face.

    I believe only 15 inch rims were available from the factory for V6. From a factory parts book copyright dated 1967 (Revised 9/66) on page 179 it shows only part number 939999 for a V6 DJ5 and DJ6 and part number 930407 for a V6 CJ3B, CJ5, CJ5A, CJ6, and CJ6A. You might have been able to get 16 inch rims from the dealer. It may have been a gearing issue, same as why the V6 did not get the four speed.

    [​IMG]

    Interesting, it looks like you could have a 13 x 5.5 rim for a 4F CJ3B, CJ5, and CJ6. I bet those are rare.

    To contradict the parts book and what I just stated, I have a Specifications - Commercial Vehicle transmittal sheet from Kaiser Jeep Corporation for the 'Jeep' Universal Model year 1966 Date: issued 4-15-66. The sheets only cover the V6. A lot of information, even more than the Service Manual. On page 16 they spec wheels.

    [​IMG]

    Series 83, 84 is CJ5 and CJ6, series 85, 86 is DJ5 and DJ6. This list's a standard rim as 15-5.5K, D.C. and an optional GVW 16-5.5K, D.C. I am not sure what the K or D.C. mean.

    From the Service Manual form SM-1046 on page 340 it list's the rim size as 15 x 6.00 with a Flange Type K for the 'Jeep' Universal V6 Engine CJ5, CJ6, CJ5A, CJ6A. In the Service Manual form SM-1002-R6 on page 237 it list's the rim size as 16 x 4.50 Flange Type E for the 'Jeep' Universal. Anyone know the difference between the "K" and "E" type flange?

    One last piece of information I have is my old memory. I owned a 1966 CJ5 Tuxedo Park 37 years ago. I know it had stock rims. After rolling it on the street I spent 6 months rebuilding it. Everything but the trans, transfer case and front and rear ends. So I knew that Jeep pretty well.

    I remember the rims as being like the ring type pictured above. Of course I threw away the hub caps, chrome on a Jeep? Youth? So I know the rims had hub cap bumps. I think once the Tux was an option; did Jeep only stock rims that had hub cap bumps to simplify rim stocking at the factory? I know there are rims out there that do not have hub cap bumps. Are they pre-1966 (before Tux era) rims?

    What is your opinion or any other references? And yes I know I am over thinking this.

    Cary 8)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  2. Dec 21, 2009
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    There were two Universal Parts Lists (UPL's) issued for 1967.
    Please refer to your Willys publications by their FORM numbers.
    Example: W-1185 R1 or W-1195 ?

    Beach patrol wheels for use with sand tires. Special equipment since 1958.

    I don't see the contradiction. 15 x 5.5 K flange Kelsey Hayes was the service standard for V-6 CJ-5 in 1966.

    The SM-1002 R6 is not a Kaiser Jeep publication. There never was an R6 version.
    It's an imposter, an incomplete copying of the SM-1002 R5.

    Kelsey Hayes 16 x 4.5E was standard from 1945 through 1962.
    When the 4.27 rear axle ratio became the service standard in November of 1962 the wheel standard was changed.
    At that same time both speedometer driven and drive gears were also changed, as was the T-90 etc.
     
  3. Dec 21, 2009
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    Ken,

    The parts book is a W-1185-R1. It is barely visible on my copy's cover.

    I have been looking for a SM-1002 R5.

    Do you know what they mean by flange type? Is that the ring, non-ring thing on my photos? E flange vs K flange.

    Cary 8)
     
  4. Dec 21, 2009
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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  5. Dec 21, 2009
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    Ken,

    Great site. Now I know more about flange type. It has nothing to do with the lug nut area.

    If anyone believes they have original stock rims on the CJ5, please post a photo of their rim and year and stock engine type.

    I am wondering if the rims where different for the V6 and 4F? This may explain the ring - non-ring. From looking at stock replacement rims, most non-ring rims seem to come from 4F CJ5. But it also appears they were around prior to the V6. Could the difference be more model year or supplier?

    Cary 8)
     
  6. Dec 21, 2009
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Some CJ-5,6 wheels were available for use with I-4 only.
    Some CJ-5,6 wheels were available for use with V-6 only.
    Some CJ-5,6 wheels were available for use with both I-4 and V-6.

    What's that mean ?

    KELSEY HAYES only !
    Standard and optional CJ wheels are specific depending upon the engine and the vintage.

    As I say I don't have all my wheel notes with me right now.
    Therefore presently, I may or may not be able to answer specific questions.
     
  7. Dec 21, 2009
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    Ken,

    If you read my first post you would see the two photo of two type of rims. I named so I could ask questions about them. Right now I have two sets of two rims on my Jeep and they are different sizes. I am trying to find out which are original. Do you know?

    Cary 8)
     
  8. Dec 22, 2009
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    The second pics that you posted (you called ring type) are correct for your 1966 CJ.
    I believe the other rims are for a 2WD SW. Do these rims have welded disks or rivotted ?
     
  9. Dec 22, 2009
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    Ken,

    Both rims are welded. What evidence do you have that the ring type of rim is correct for a '66 CJ5? I think you are correct.

    Cary 8)
     
  10. Dec 22, 2009
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Partly via familiarity partly via your input.
    You yourself stated that they measured 6.5" wide at outside edge of the rims.
    That is the correct outside rim width from my previous observations.
    I did not specifically ask because I already knew that your CJ rims must be welded.
    No rivotted wheels exist for that particular width.
    Surely most anyone else with a 1963 through 1968 CJ can verify those rims.

    As for the other rims its like I said I don't have my books with me,
    but I distinctly recall that some 2WD SW's used rims of that width, 5" x 15".
    Knowing the SW rims are welded I can surmise the timeline and estimate them to be an early 1960's SW wheel.
    They are not one of the 1950's rivotted 5 x 16" wheels.

    Clear as mud ? We haven't seen the bottom yet so let me say this....
    There were roughly 20 Kelsey Hayes wheels in use from 1945 through 1971.
    Some wheels were normally interchanged between SW PU and CJ's.
    Most wheels did not interchange between various Jeep models.

    Those 2wd SW wheels were never intended for your CJ.
    Group 25 is a complex topic and when I get a Round Tuit,
    I can hope to chart it all out some day.
     
  11. May 20, 2010
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    I am reviving this thread to find more information.

    If someone owns a '66 CJ5 with a V6 and knows the rims are stock, I would like to get some measurements. I know the rims are 15 inch and 5.5 inches wide. What is the offset? Are they the ring type in the lug nut mount area? Do they have three or four hub cap nubs.

    A member has a set which I think are correct, but from a later year CJ5. I think they are the correct rims for my '66, but may have been used for other years too.

    Thanks for any help.

    Cary
     
  12. May 21, 2010
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    FWIW ...

    The second picture looks more like what I would expect from a Jeep wheel. Here is an original wheel from my CJ-6:

    [​IMG]

    I question the wheel in the top picture because I know that F-100 Ford pickup wheels were used for Jeeps in the day by cutting out their centers to clear the hub. F100 wheels were a common source of centers for cheap wide sand wheels, specifically. When the centers were cut out, the web between the center hole and the bolt hole was weakened, and they were prone to cracking there. The top picture reminds me of these wheels. The Jeep wheels have a differently shaped bolt surface, with the edge rolled over to stiffen the web.

    The wheel in the second picture is definitely Jeep, IMO.

    If you look closely at the suspect wheel and find a stamped oval...
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2010
  13. May 21, 2010
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    Tim,

    I agree with you. The ring type is Jeep and what you said makes since. I have one "Ford" type rim that is creaked on my '66.

    I noticed your rim has hub cap nubs. I think starting with the introduction of the Tux and hub caps all rims had them. When or did rim size or type change from '66 to mid '70's? How long was the 15 inch x 5.5" rim typical for the V6. When did Jeep change rim type in the '70's or did they? In other words were rims the same from '65 to ?.

    Also, the was the 16 inch rim an option, but did it come with hub caps for the Tux? Has anyone every seen a 16 inch rim with hub caps?

    Cary
     
  14. May 23, 2010
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired. Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    on my 65
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  15. May 23, 2010
    unclebill

    unclebill Banned

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    ^
    mine look like that too.
     
  16. May 25, 2010
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired. Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Here are two photos of my KH 15x8 wheels for reference. They have the ring around the lugs so maybe the ones with the ring are KH. The stampings are in the second photo.

    BTW this is not the original paint.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  17. May 26, 2010
    Cap-n-Cray

    Cap-n-Cray I want to do this again.. Staff Member Sponsor

    Bainbridge...
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    Mark,

    What year are the rims from? Riveted not welded? Was 8 inch an option or after market?

    Thanks,

    Cary
     
  18. May 26, 2010
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired. Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I bought these from the classified section here. No clue on the age or option. The previous owner also bought them used but never put them on.
     
  19. May 26, 2010
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    As I recall, they were factory equipment on the Renegade 1. You could buy them over the counter too, in the day. Their main drawback is that they do not work with 11" drum brakes.

    By 1972, you could buy 15x8 steel wheels that would fit over the 11" drums. I expect these were from K-H, but not a Jeep factory part.
     
  20. Jun 11, 2011
    BJHitson60

    BJHitson60 Member

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    So in what year did Jeep go from 5.5 inch width to 6 inch width - 1967 or later? Does anyone know?
     

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