Correct input shaft?

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by garage gnome, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Sep 6, 2015
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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  2. Sep 6, 2015
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. Sponsor

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  3. Sep 6, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

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    Looks Correct.......Ford only version of the T-18 should be 6.5" from the face of the Tranny.......10-spline and 1.062" diameter and for it to be the wide ratio.....(6:32) low gear it should have 17 teeth.
     
  4. Sep 6, 2015
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

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  5. Sep 6, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor

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    You will still an adapter between the T18 and the D18.
     
  6. Sep 6, 2015
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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    I have a jeep t18 with a Texas bolt pattern and a large hole Dana 18. ;)
     
  7. Sep 6, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

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    Ford / Jeep T-18 both built by Borg Warner but use a different sized input spline size as well as clutch disc..........Ford 1.062" Jeep 1.125" whatever you do make sure you keep that distinction when ordering parts.......some will cross over while others will not.
     
  8. Sep 6, 2015
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

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    The Jeep T-18 case has a slightly different front bolt pattern than the Ford case, and won't line up as well with the Buick bell. However, I understand it can be made to work.
     
  9. Sep 8, 2015
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

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    Not if the T-18 casting and or the BOP bellhousing is modified.
    True and False.
    Depends on which of the many Jeep main drive gears (MDG's) you are using.
    The short Jeep MDG's like Ford are also 1.1625" @ 10 spline.


    The Jeep T18's require different size 2nd and 3rd speed blocking rings as compared to the otherwise same Ford gears.
    This implies you may want Jeep MDG if you have Jeep gears.
    Or else use Ford MDG if you have Ford gears.
    Otherwise you must mix n match Jeep part with Ford parts.

    The Ford MDG is 9-1/8" OAL and is actually a tad short for use when mated to the Dauntless.
    The short Jeep MDG's are 10 " OAL and will work perfectly well.
    The short Jeep MDG has a long pilot that can easily be shortened if that is desired.

    See pic here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-T18-tr...eyfMyY4hTFvcKU4xv%2B4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  10. Sep 9, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    The Ford T-18 input is the "go to" for swapping behind most GM engines and works very well. A pilot bushing will need to be sourced or machined to fit the Ford larger input pilot. The Jeep "short main drive gear" with the long pilot was only used '77-'79 behind 6 cylinder engines, as an option (in the 6.32-1 version), so as you can imagine can be much more difficult to source. Some say '76 also but all the '76 units I've seen were 4.02-1 versions except extremely late production.
    There will still need to be an adapter between a T-18 and D-18 (Dana 18 transfer case) and has nothing to do with the bellhousing.
    One thing you want to watch when using a Ford input is to make sure the shaft necks down behind the clutch disc splines. If it does not the disc can run out of travel and be held against the Dauntless flywheel due to the much thicker flywheel which moves the disc farther back on the input shaft.

    Ken is dead on in regards to the blocking rings, gears, and synchronizer assembly being different, except it's the 3rd and 4th gear. The 3-4 synchronizer assembly is different, the inserts are a different width, and the cone diameter and blocking ring diameter and thickness are different on the Jeep (and early Ford) T-18's vs. the later Ford T-18's. Which means if you don't have the early Ford T-18 input shaft (main drive gear) you will need the matching 3/4 synchronizer assembly, blocking rings, and 3rd speed gear. And yes, what some people call "granny, or low gear" is indeed first gear, even if not used during normal light duty use.
     
  11. Sep 10, 2015
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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  12. Sep 10, 2015
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

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    T18 from J truck should have everything you need except for a viable bell housing bolt pattern.
    Also the main drive gear will be much too long.
    You could potentially have the main drive gear shortened and re-splined.
    That would give you a 1-1/8" diameter main drive gear.
    Or you could buy the short Jeep main drive gear like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CROWN-SHORT...103-/370815837671?hash=item565658a5e7&vxp=mtr
    The short jeep maindrive gear uses bearing retainer seen here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321858916177?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
     
  13. Sep 10, 2015
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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    Ok thanks for the help. How come T18 swapping isn't easy?
     
  14. Sep 10, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

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    It is if you use the Ford Version
     
  15. Sep 11, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

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    This makes for a short rear driveshaft in a CJ, but if you can find a J- truck or Wagoneer with the factory Buick 350, the T-18 is a direct bolt-in and already has the Dana 20 adapter (same as late D18 ). They have a very long input shaft and bellhousing, but you can't get simpler than that.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Sep 11, 2015
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

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    Just FYI - the short Jeep main drive gear from Crown that Ken points to is Jeep PN 8128103 and fits the '77-78 CJ5s and CJ-7s with the T-18.
     
  17. Sep 11, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    I can tell you from lots of personal experience Crown gears stink. I've seen them so off center they would bind against original gears. I won't install them if I can avoid it at all.
     
  18. Sep 11, 2015
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Member

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    I'm with nickmil on the crown stuff. I've never messed with their Jeep/Light Truck parts, but assuming it's the same Crown that builds pirate Heavy Truck/Heavy Equipment drivetrain parts, I'll not buy their stuff.
     
  19. Sep 11, 2015
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Well "Crown Automotive" is merely a distributor and not a parts manufacturer.
    I honesty don't own anything myself and do not recommend anything that is not OEM.
    The only exception would be NOS parts that were distributed by "SEAL TESTED".
    Seal Tested parts were all USA made and most were likely repackaged OEM parts.

    Ebay is merely a quick way for me to access pics.
     
  20. Nov 25, 2015
    04sd2

    04sd2 Member

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    I used the Jeep T18 so it had the adapter already on for the D18/20. On the front side swap in the Ford input shaft. I turned down the Ford input shaft tip so I could use the standard GM pilot bushing. Turn down the Ford bearing retainer and you can use the GM throwout bearing. Where the bearing retainer bolts to the trans, turn this down to the GM size and use Allen head bolts to mount the retainer on the trans. Use a Chevy blowproof bell housing, you can easily modify it to bolt the the Buick engine. The trans will now fit into the bellhousing with the turned down bearing retainer, you can drill trans mounting holes anywhere in the blowproof housing.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.

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