Condensor Failure

I don't think it's the condensors.

What have have here is a generational divide. Two types of people...

On one hand (the Young Punks) are the people who grew up in a laser-guided, lithium-ion, digital-chip cyber-world. They love complexity and the 'magic' that the black boxes enable. They distrust physical technology because they are not familiar with hand tools, or never traced a simple wiring circuit. They are used to having instant access to quick answers to problems, rather than evolving personal understanding of systems. (We see that in many of the queries posted on this site.) They enjoy the new and innovative, and think it is better because it is new. To them staying up with technology is a social necessity.

In the other hand (the Old Farts) we know and trust electro-mechanical sysytems. Like us, they are proven reliable over time. Their ingenuity and elegance developed over decades. We like working with things we can see and touch and comprehend. When they fail we are confident we will be able fix them, probably at home. We are scared that if a black box dies we will be helpless, or vulnerable to expensive specialists. So we don't mind adjusting a screw once in a while, in fact we enjoy it. To us, understanding such things as how ignition points work is a part of manliness, just as knowing how to kill dinner was in earlier times. Like all ole timers in history we know the youngsters are just waiting for us to get out of the way as they take over, and we are afraid our knowledge is becoming worthless. Like us.

I suspect a lot of condenser "failures" are somewhere in that divide.

With my third hand…. I will adjust the colander on my head and creep back into my cave.

 

A condenser or in the electronics world, a capacitor, is composed of two conductive plates separated by an insulator. In old style capacitors like an automotive condenser the plates are just two roles of metal foil separated by waxed paper or Mylar film. Each of the two foils are the conductors. One wire of a capacitor goes to one foil the other goes to the other foil. In an automotive capacitor, one lead goes out the center, the other lead is attached internally to the metal can or case. The mounting tab is for more than mounting and is not insulated from the capacitor, it is the second terminal. It is used at a low voltage so the mount and mounting screw should be cleaned prior to mounting in the distributor to insure good electrical contact.

A capacitor does reduce slightly the arcing from the points but that is not its main function. If you look at an engine with external points such as a Kohler engine and you will see quite a bit of arcing. The points will last a long time with or without a condenser. So why have a condenser at all? A capacitor in parallel with a coil and a collapsing magnetic field produces an oscillating circuit. This oscillating circuit produces a much stronger spark with both higher voltage and a much longer duration of spark. No capacitor and the effective spark is much less. That is a problem in battery powered systems but is absolutely critical in weaker magneto systems. Spin a magneto both with and without a condenser and the spark may be almost non-existent without the capacitor.

I don't worry about the build up on one side of the points or the other as related to the capacitance. What am I going to do anyway? I don't know the capacitance of the condenser I would currently have nor would NAPA, TM, or anyone else be able to sell me an auto condenser that had any capacitance marking. I would not know what I have and would not know what I was getting.

I have a capacitor bridge that I use for working on my antique radios but no need for fancy equipment to test an automotive capacitor. A capacitor will charge when a voltage is applied to it. The capacitance of an auto condenser is very small, you could put it on your tongue and there would not be enough stored voltage and current to notice. No reason to be afraid to touch. You need to test for 3 conditions, a short where the internal foils are touching, an open circuit where the internal foils are not connected to the external lead or to the can, and a leak where there is a leakage of voltage across the insulating Mylar. Take a cheap analog multimeter, put it in the OHMs mode to measure resistance, touch the leads together and it should show zero ohms. Take the capacitor lead and touch to the case to discharge anything still in the capacitor. Touch one lead of the meter to the capacitor lead, touch the other lead to the can or case. You should notice a kick in the meter needle, the needle should move slightly indicating charging of the capacitor. For the inexpensive meters the kick may be only 1/8 inch movement of the needle but that is enough. The needle should then move to infinity resistance and stay there. If there is no kick then the capacitor is open and should be thrown away, if the needle does not return to infinity then the capacitor is leaking or is shorted and should not be used. Just look for a brief small kick of the needle and a return to infinity. Keep your other hand off the capacitor case or lead otherwise the meter may just measure the resistance of your skin rather than the capacitor. Touching the capacitor lead to its case will discharge the capacitor so you can try again with the meter in case you may have missed the needle kick the first time.

 

I think 5 times now replacing the condenser has fixed my Jeeps. May last 1 wk. or a few months. I think it is poor quality parts. Again, what am I missing?
And yes, i'm old enough to have white hair.

 

Well you could look at that as "replacing the condensor has NOT fixed your jeeps."
If it is indeed the quality, have you tried finding a better brand?
If so, "what is causing them to fail?" might be the missing question.
?

Or have the members of this site uncovered a counterfeit condensor conspiracy?

 

This is true also. I would be more understanding if I had overheating issues(baking the darn thing) or poor quality ignition wiring. I don't use the ballast resistor, but do have the correct coil with internal ballast. happened on the f134 several times and now on the oddfire in the cj6 with Delco dist. Been buying NAPA parts, made in Mexico

 

Just reading this for information on the condenser that failed on the F134 in my 70 DJ. When I first went to look at the DJ it wouldn't start. The guy was really mad at the Jeep. First thing he went for was the condenser. He called his FLAPS and they didn't have the part for the F134. He then asked them if they had one for a 65-66 Mustang. He got a yes, went to pick it up, installed the new condenser and it started right up. My only thought was, "Is the value of the capacitor the same and will it matter?" And that is the old man story that brought me to this thread. I guess I'll buy a spare condenser while youse guys continue the debate.

 

I can only add that when I have bought them for Jeeps, the six volt and the twelve volt condensors were the same part number.

 

bottom line to this . carry a spare and tools to change it . I always had points and condenser in glove box . and carry a set with the old harley I ride . changed that condenser more times than I can count

 

Thats a good idea....but I read somewhere that age has something to do with the life,not just usage,no idea were I read it or just made it up for an excuse,but I'm old enough to get away with either......but I also carry a set of points & condenser incase the pertronics fail.